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That is a little unfair. Joel Send a noteboard - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM
Implanon and IUDs both last for years at a time, and have sub-1% failure rates. I am not sure how readily PP provides these, but they are definitely solutions to the biggest problem of birth control, which is human error.

If the healthcare law and the DHHS ruling classifying birth control as preventive care both stand, all of these will soon be available to everyone with no copay. (Of course, the "pro-life" movement is fighting this tooth and nail, because preventing abortions isn't really their primary goal.)


I don't think they see the link between that and preventing unplanned pregnancy though, unless they only want to allow for abstinence as the route to that.

If they haven't looked, then they're not serious about what they claim is their overriding goal, which is my point.

Yes, most of them only want to support abstinence. That's because the "pro-life" movement is really about enforcing specific, oppressive sexual mores.

In many cases it is less supporting abstinence than supporting it for MINORS. That is not solely about oppressive or even repressive mores (thought it often involves them, too) hence laws against it virtually everywhere, even in quite sexually liberated countries. The definition of "minor" varies by locale, and there is often some latitude when both (or however many) partners are close to the same age, but, generally speaking, sex with or without contraception is discouraged in minors. Ironically, the few demographics that ARE sexually oppressed in many respects tend to most indulge sex with minors—provided it is duly sanctioned by the family of all girls involved, and the local religious authority. Yet even in those cases the result is de jure majority, though it often amounts to little more than transfer of ownership.

Put simply, the greatest moral imperative for abstinence-only birth control is often just preventing minors "being taken advantage of." Parents and nations understandably oppose raping children, either by force or manipulation.

That is without considering things like parents worrying fourteen year olds who ignore their stodgy and paranoid fears about their children having sex are just as apt to ignore stodgy paranoid fears about not using birth control. Likewise many boys who can talk a girl out of her panties can talk themselves out of a condom as easily (i.e. a boy who can "take advantage of a girl" often needs no birth control to do it.)

There are other concerns that have little or nothing to do with sexual oppression (oppression? Truly?) I am setting aside Implanon because

1) I try to avoid drugs on the market <10 years (i.e. during the final/first large scale human trial) because of things like

2) "The manufacturer advises 'Expect your menstrual periods to be irregular and unpredictable throughout the time you are using IMPLANON™'. It is not known whether Implanon changes a woman's risk for breast cancer" and

3) this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12117299

On the one hand, it has been on the market just over 10 years in the UK; on the other hand, well, perfect=typical use...? Not so much. :(

I would move to Depo-Provera instead, which has been around about twice as long, but a TON of groups in various countries oppose it, and most are womens health groups. Apparently, endometrial cancer had NEVER been diagnosed in rhesus monkeys—prior to Depo-Provera trials. http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1985/02/problems-us.html Moving on....

NuvaRing does not look too bad based on a little preliminary digging just now, and it will have been on the market 10 years come July, with a typical annual failure rate of 8%. The "perfect" failure rate is only about 1%, but "perfect" abstinence has a failure rate of about 0.000000001%, and thus obviously superior by that metric (by nine orders of magnitude. :P) There are about a million teen pregnancies per year in the US; ignoring the fact many US teens already use some kind of birth control, putting them all on the US contraception proven safest and most effective would still leave about 80,000 teen pregnancies per year.

Even parents unconcerned about their children being pressured and/or physically forced into sex will still worry about falling into that unfortunate 8%. Even those with no moral objection to abortion usually realize it is often so traumatic many women also lacking moral objections nonetheless choose hysterectomy or tubal ligation instead. Those who DO object to abortion—but ONLY abortion, not contraception or premarital sex—usually object to their children sacrificing educations and/or good careers to raise a child, and do not want to raise their childrens children to prevent that. It raises the question of how many parents, in this age of accountability and personal responsibility, take their SONS to get condoms compared to how many take their DAUGHTERS to get the pill, patch or implant. Probably less than 20 years ago, thanks to the availability of DNA tests.

In short, many Pro Lifers also prefer abstinence-only sexual education for a host of reasons unrelated to their feelings on premarital sex (which US law also "opposes" when it involves anyone >21, and usually anyone >18.) I agree that is naïve and unrealistic, and they should recognize the need for a fall back position when "NO WIRE HANGERS OR PREMARITAL SEX EVER111" fails. However, there are far more causes than merely oppression, often not a cause at all.

In fact, I imagine it is seldom a cause. I know there are instances of parents locking up kids to prevent sex, and men forcing adult girlfriends/wifes to bear children (in an infamous recent case, a German man was discovered to have done BOTH for decades) but I doubt there are 80,000 in the US. In other words, the number of Americans denied contraception through genuine OPPRESSION is probably far less than those unintentionally pregnant when freely obtained contraception FAILS.

On a completely unrelated note, I have not forgotten I have owed you a response in another thread since a few weeks before Christmas, but between the holidays and an online class plus an in building class I got sidetracked. Since the thread is so old you should expect a NB some time reasonably soon, with apologies for delay. :<img class=' />
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Implanon side effects, to the extent known since girls younger than it began INGESTING it.
This message last edited by Joel on 03/02/2012 at 12:49:36 PM
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Susan G. Komen cuts funds to Planned Parenthood. (with updated edit) - 02/02/2012 04:32:27 PM 2193 Views
The most annoying part is in the sixth paragraph- abortions are only a small part of their thing - 02/02/2012 05:08:07 PM 1084 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 05:20:17 PM 996 Views
I can understand it though. - 02/02/2012 05:45:55 PM 1055 Views
I can too, it just isn't for me. - 02/02/2012 05:58:33 PM 966 Views
Actually, there are longer-acting forms of birth control than the pill. - 03/02/2012 12:37:42 AM 980 Views
I do think that preventing abortions is their primary goal. - 03/02/2012 01:08:05 AM 942 Views
If they don't see that link, it's because they haven't looked. - 03/02/2012 02:42:42 AM 1027 Views
That is a little unfair. - 03/02/2012 12:48:46 PM 1237 Views
Won't someone please think of the children?! - 04/02/2012 05:03:27 AM 1024 Views
I think you're leaving out some important points. - 04/02/2012 03:40:48 PM 968 Views
Ah, the good ol' silent majority. - 04/02/2012 07:32:29 PM 942 Views
So which moron is feeding you this crap? - 04/02/2012 10:27:15 PM 966 Views
A zygote isn't a person, because it doesn't have a brain. - 05/02/2012 12:33:29 AM 961 Views
It worries me when we think alike.... - 05/02/2012 01:22:35 PM 1001 Views
Brain waves at 8 weeks are a myth. - 05/02/2012 08:46:06 PM 1104 Views
"brain function... appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks' gestation." - 05/02/2012 10:42:35 PM 1016 Views
Oh please. - 05/02/2012 11:13:50 PM 980 Views
Re: Oh please yourself. - 06/02/2012 09:15:26 PM 857 Views
Quite a telling reply. - 07/02/2012 04:38:20 AM 923 Views
Re: I quite agree. - 08/02/2012 06:03:23 PM 1127 Views
You're taking an issue of objective facts and treating it like a day of playground gossip. - 09/02/2012 03:47:06 AM 967 Views
No, your source, in which there is very little that is objective, did that for me. - 11/02/2012 02:59:45 AM 990 Views
I see you have continued to provide no factual arguments. - 14/02/2012 04:53:28 AM 1226 Views
I presented factual rebuttals. - 19/02/2012 01:56:45 AM 1018 Views
You continue to miss the point. - 23/02/2012 10:22:24 PM 1108 Views
Well, yes. - 04/02/2012 11:14:47 PM 1028 Views
A silent majority may as well not exist, if it has no tangible effects. - 05/02/2012 12:54:34 AM 972 Views
You ignoring it is not the same thing as it having no tangible effect. - 05/02/2012 02:11:36 AM 1066 Views
Ignoring what? You haven't shown me anything solid. - 05/02/2012 05:25:23 AM 966 Views
It's ok, we're done. *NM* - 05/02/2012 09:29:05 AM 589 Views
Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 04/02/2012 08:25:49 PM 1055 Views
Re: Since few people oppose ADULT contraception access, that might be wise in this case. - 05/02/2012 02:11:28 AM 967 Views
If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 08:42:17 AM 799 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 05/02/2012 10:04:59 PM 967 Views
Re: If you are arguing most sex ed opponents are naïve/ignorant, I agree. - 06/02/2012 08:57:38 PM 948 Views
I'm done discussing my use of the term "oppression." The Tim Ryan stuff is interesting, though. - 07/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1045 Views
Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 08/02/2012 06:01:32 PM 1136 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 09/02/2012 05:30:58 AM 1003 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 11/02/2012 02:58:00 AM 1033 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 14/02/2012 04:29:08 AM 1096 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 19/02/2012 01:54:30 AM 1012 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 23/02/2012 10:59:32 PM 1311 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 07/03/2012 01:47:44 AM 966 Views
Re: Yet, regrettably, not done misusing it. - 15/03/2012 10:27:23 PM 1225 Views
There are problems with the implants - 03/02/2012 01:42:55 AM 991 Views
You have a talent for understatement. - 03/02/2012 01:08:40 PM 976 Views
I agree that they have made Beast Cancer a cult but splitting with PP is just smart - 02/02/2012 05:39:49 PM 1126 Views
I agree. - 02/02/2012 06:00:17 PM 908 Views
yes she is going to have to piss off one group or the other - 02/02/2012 06:12:31 PM 976 Views
Right - 02/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1026 Views
Do you see a way Komen could have avoided pissing off one side? - 02/02/2012 06:55:36 PM 973 Views
No, I don't. I don't believe I said that? - 02/02/2012 07:53:50 PM 881 Views
You didn't; I inferred it from the way you phrased that ("if she HAS to..."). Sorry. - 02/02/2012 08:06:11 PM 963 Views
I know I'm not always clear. - 02/02/2012 08:32:47 PM 966 Views
Just curious... - 02/02/2012 10:07:49 PM 949 Views
Not at all. - 02/02/2012 10:24:19 PM 1012 Views
Not at all? - 02/02/2012 10:32:31 PM 903 Views
No. - 02/02/2012 10:47:04 PM 866 Views
My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 02/02/2012 11:17:24 PM 956 Views
Re: My argument is based on my belief that the pro-choice women are more dedicated to women's causes - 03/02/2012 12:08:01 AM 955 Views
wow that may be the worst advice I had in weeks - 03/02/2012 12:13:18 AM 918 Views
Ooor, the best. - 03/02/2012 12:25:56 AM 900 Views
ok now you are just being mean *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:46:12 AM 588 Views
The thread was going too well - I thought we needed the meanness. *NM* - 03/02/2012 11:30:39 AM 534 Views
rabble rouser *NM* - 04/02/2012 04:24:01 AM 551 Views
I misread this at first - 03/02/2012 12:51:44 AM 959 Views
not to mention codeine seems to make me double post - 02/02/2012 11:17:26 PM 2002 Views
I'm not so sure I agree. Or not completely. - 02/02/2012 06:14:11 PM 891 Views
I don't diagree with the way you see it - 02/02/2012 06:39:41 PM 963 Views
More inevitable than anything, considering who started Komen. - 02/02/2012 10:19:34 PM 909 Views
Never having heard of any of those except PP, my opinion may not be the most relevant... - 02/02/2012 08:32:48 PM 1033 Views
You don't know stuff. - 02/02/2012 08:43:38 PM 995 Views
I know the stuff that matters. - 02/02/2012 09:55:08 PM 897 Views
That's true. - 02/02/2012 10:34:32 PM 987 Views
they may also be a afraid that PP will go the way of ACORN - 02/02/2012 11:04:16 PM 1039 Views
"Accused" of = unfounded slander. - 03/02/2012 12:13:30 AM 1051 Views
This is so foreign a debate for me - 02/02/2012 10:16:15 PM 1015 Views
Must be nice. *NM* - 03/02/2012 12:26:49 AM 640 Views
Re: stuff - 03/02/2012 09:18:53 AM 914 Views
I'm sorry, but what're we talking about when we're talking about "cancer" - 03/02/2012 12:49:34 PM 946 Views
Obviously not adenocarcinoma, no. - 04/02/2012 07:36:06 AM 959 Views
I"m not that fussed. I'm just generally leary of research that has results like that - 04/02/2012 08:35:04 PM 904 Views
Fair enough. - 04/02/2012 10:17:31 PM 974 Views
They restored funding incidentally - 03/02/2012 05:43:47 PM 891 Views
Unless I've missed it - 03/02/2012 05:56:15 PM 981 Views
You must have missed it then - 03/02/2012 07:07:13 PM 895 Views
If you're referring to Cannoli - 03/02/2012 07:19:25 PM 1048 Views
Multiple was not an accidental choice of words - 03/02/2012 11:46:30 PM 923 Views
Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 12:41:42 AM 957 Views
Re: Then I agree that maybe this is not the thread for you. - 04/02/2012 01:53:25 AM 1149 Views
Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 02:56:42 PM 979 Views
Re: Well, I'll try again for both of us. - 04/02/2012 07:40:25 PM 946 Views
well at least there will not be any doubt about this being a political decision - 03/02/2012 06:24:14 PM 1092 Views
I think that ship sailed long ago. - 03/02/2012 08:45:13 PM 898 Views
Truth - 04/02/2012 02:07:20 AM 1003 Views
I do wonder a bit which lawmakers Fox thinks "pressured" Komen. - 03/02/2012 08:29:50 PM 894 Views
are you trying to disprove the study you posted? - 03/02/2012 09:20:12 PM 1022 Views
To me, it depends on the nature of the contact, which I have not dug enough to discover. - 03/02/2012 10:43:45 PM 924 Views
you admit you have no incite into what happened - 04/02/2012 04:27:17 AM 948 Views
Actually, it looks like Komens new VP (and former GOP GA gubernatorial candidate) had the incite. - 04/02/2012 04:24:14 PM 996 Views
educated guess don't work when you are tinfoil hat wearing kool-aid drinker - 04/02/2012 09:33:49 PM 894 Views
Dude. - 04/02/2012 11:20:49 PM 836 Views
Yo mama? - 05/02/2012 05:32:11 AM 990 Views
whhhhhhyyyyyy - 04/02/2012 11:23:58 PM 965 Views
Why would I not think that? - 05/02/2012 05:46:15 AM 865 Views

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