Active Users:1131 Time:23/11/2024 05:07:09 AM
You did not say it, but citing the importance of cheaper supplies suggests it. Joel Send a noteboard - 25/01/2012 11:10:04 AM
You may recall that is how the article said Chinese suppliers could present Apple a warehouse full of glass samples to test: Because it cost the supplier nothing, thanks to government subsidies.

That's ultimately just some small gesture that nobody cares about when making real decisions. At most it grasped Apple's attention and forced them to give the Chinese supplier fair consideration. I didn't see anything about government subsidies playing a meaningful role in making that supplier the most competitive. The clustering of supporting industries and suppliers, on the other hand, was a real factor.

The samples themselves were a small gesture; that subsidies let the company fill a warehouse with them at no cost is not: It is a big reason supply costs are so much lower in China (hence the article cited it as such.) Considering that Apple itself created a clustered supply chain in "Silicon Vally North," I suspect those subsidies are a bigger factor in outsourcing than clustering is. Were supply chain clusters the only factor they could be easily addressed (and tend to be anyway; companies were prone to centralize supplies to save money even when they did not fear outsourcing.) Federal subsidies are a bigger challenge, because crony capitalism that is Chinas norm is far more contentious in the West.
I am unsure what that has to do with the outsourcers contention they go overseas because America no longer produces workers with the education and skills for the demanding jobs they need done. Yet when I did manufacturing work before leaving the States all it required was a HS diploma or GED. The company was, however, in the process of building a Indonesian plant to take over a major product line our plant had been producing for years: Because the labor cost was lower.

I'm unsure why you seem to think it should have something to do with it, considering that I was talking about something else.

Because according to the article, despite its assertion that supply costs are outsourcings critical cause, "companies and economists" claim that "Though Americans are among the most educated workers in the world, the nation has stopped training enough people in the mid-level skills that factories need." Which might make sense if not for the fact so much of the manufacturing going overseas is unskilled entry level assembly work.

But if you want me to talk about that, fine. Outsourcing of genuinely low-skilled work is one thing, outsourcing of the iPhone and the like quite another. For one thing, the former is really all about the wage costs, and so some companies move from country to country several times, always looking for the next undeveloped country with low wages - Eastern Europe had such factories for a while, now they're leaving again. The latter is quite a different story and far more difficult to move from one country to another. The article said something about those Chinese workers being paid only USD 17 a day; while that is obviously well below Western minimum wages, it's several times what unskilled easily replaceable workers get. So when they talk about America not having those workers, what they mean is workers who *do* have a not insignificant amount of technical training and knowledge - and large amounts of such workers. I don't think it's so far-fetched to say the US and other European countries have too few of those, for a variety of reasons - people choosing less marketable careers, people being either under-educated or over-educated for it, and the like.

It may be difficult, but obviously not so much so that companies are unable to do it on a large scale, because they are. In the articles real world example of a former Apple engineer who wound up earning $12/hr at a call center in his old office when his job went to China, it was not because he lacked education to do his job, but simply because an equally educated Chinese worker could and would do it for far less.

Not that I dispute America is falling behind in college educated labor, or that it hurts our competitiveness, but the issue there at the moment is (contrary to the claims of outsourcers) not lacking such workers, but that those we have are now losing their jobs to outsourcing just as unskilled workers have been for decades. To a great and shameful extent I think that is why America has begun caring about a far from novel large scale labor transfer. It is similar to what happened a generation ago when middle class union manufacturing jobs began leaving the US. Younger workers then were were able to transition to the up and coming tech industry, letting their old careers be relegated to the lower class.

Now those tech jobs are leaving, too, and no fallback position exists. "Ebusiness" is cited periodically, but since that is ideally suited to outsourcing (since supply chain issues are largely irrelevant to data transmission) it is hardly a long term solution; the Third World can create the infrastructure for that in months or years rather than the decades it took to develop the infrastructure the tech industry requires.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
How U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work - 21/01/2012 10:10:30 PM 1097 Views
Yup. BS, isn't it? *NM* - 22/01/2012 02:43:32 AM 289 Views
The sad fact is... - 22/01/2012 02:56:46 AM 607 Views
This *NM* - 22/01/2012 08:07:58 AM 237 Views
I am SO sick of hearing this false rhetoric. - 22/01/2012 06:39:07 PM 676 Views
I don't believe its false. I believe its true. As seen, daily, by myself. - 25/01/2012 07:11:00 PM 557 Views
I do not deny it happens, but I do not believe it the norm. - 25/01/2012 07:29:54 PM 598 Views
Nice strawman you got there. - 22/01/2012 10:19:17 PM 671 Views
You probably aren't aware that even though it is a crime in China... - 23/01/2012 04:59:27 AM 666 Views
It will be acceptable as long as the US remains a market for products made that way. - 22/01/2012 06:10:20 PM 639 Views
It always kind of cracks me up when people bitch about China when... - 23/01/2012 05:04:36 AM 656 Views
That really is the bottom line. - 23/01/2012 05:24:57 AM 759 Views
That's a little unfair. - 23/01/2012 02:07:17 PM 566 Views
People really should read the rest of the article and not just the first page. - 23/01/2012 11:21:39 PM 521 Views
Yes. - 24/01/2012 10:19:57 AM 482 Views
Are you saying the US should heavily subsidize its supplies like the Chinese government does? - 24/01/2012 11:15:37 AM 519 Views
Of course not. Where did I even say anything about that? - 24/01/2012 08:10:29 PM 616 Views
You did not say it, but citing the importance of cheaper supplies suggests it. - 25/01/2012 11:10:04 AM 479 Views
You didn't say that. I'll explain the way Joel posts. - 25/01/2012 07:16:05 PM 626 Views
What a bunch of shit. - 24/01/2012 01:33:19 AM 719 Views
Huh. I would not have expected to hear that from you. - 24/01/2012 09:35:56 PM 522 Views
Really? - 24/01/2012 11:23:26 PM 577 Views

Reply to Message