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How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it? Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
A lot of it IS about piracy, which is why SOME new law WILL be enacted. The pretense piracy is itself just a pretense, that media companies are just using Congress to censor people, undermines any criticism of the pending legislation. It encourages legislators to dismiss that criticism as falsely biased, mainly because IT IS. Offer them an alternative way to curb piracy, because they WILL enact a law with that aim, and if Big Media is the only one submitting suggestions, the final inevitable law will say pretty much whatever they like.

what good is it doing to pass a law to stop a website from being accessed when that website is still in operation if you know how to get to it? also, what happens if someone in the US asks for the IP for that website and someone else gives them a fake IP to go to which injects a virus into their computer?

As to the first, I think you just explained a great deal of why these bills would impose criminal penalties (though your "current laws are working and the media only wants new ones because current laws are not working" argument was good, too.) As to the second... um, what? If someone asks a third party for the IP of a site taken offline for violating US law, gets a fake IP and winds up with a virus, maybe that is a valuable object lesson. I mean, that kind of thing is already fairly ubiquitous online, but I am pretty sure the fault for that lies solely with people disseminating viruses online, and people can avoid most of them by avoiding shady links and sites.

tell me why this is safer than the current operation. tell me why, since piracy is such a problem, the film and music industries cannot prove what their actual losses are and have the results independently verified for statistical accuracy? the point is, they can't and won't because it's so much easier to bring out the spectre of PIRACY IS BAD AND EVIL AND KILLING US ALL TO DEATH.

Yeah, once again, good luck using that argument to convince Congress of anything except that people who think piracy should be ignored think piracy should be ignored (which we and they pretty much knew already.) I remember the Secret Service shutting down Steve Jackson Games as well as you do, and you cannot even convince ME things are fine as they are: How do you expect to convince Congressmen? Even I conceded Big Media is guilty of alarmist absolutism (which I do not, entirely) the antidote to that is not a different flavor of alarmist absolutism.

There WILL be a new anti-piracy law. Instead of forfeiting credibility with and thus relevance to legislators enacting it, why not try giving them the constructive feedback Obama explicitly requested. They still may not implement the legislation you prefer (seems likely, since you appear to prefer none,) but if you do not even tell them what you want they CANNOT implement it.
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English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout - 17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM 2103 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right? - 17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM 938 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"? - 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM 1041 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills? - 17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM 1133 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much - 17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM 987 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter. - 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM 1092 Views
I love you. *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM 632 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM* - 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM 619 Views
Can i second the adulation? - 18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM 824 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM* - 18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM 617 Views
Thanks guys. - 18/01/2012 04:39:00 AM 984 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill. - 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM 990 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this. - 18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM 943 Views
That is really all I ask. - 18/01/2012 06:26:37 PM 977 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please. - 18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM 1006 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary. - 18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM 1003 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now. - 18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM 1016 Views
OK. - 18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM 1038 Views
Surreal. It's like you're a spam-bot or something. *NM* - 19/01/2012 01:23:35 AM 750 Views
That was constructive. - 19/01/2012 03:29:53 PM 914 Views
Very nicely summarised. *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:06:02 AM 553 Views
should be interesting - 17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM 862 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors. - 17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM 930 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding. - 17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM 948 Views
So tell them that. - 17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM 1092 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good. - 17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM 866 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust. - 17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM 1005 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright? - 18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM 846 Views
There seems to be some overlap. - 18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM 971 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap. - 18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM 842 Views
Er, what Ghav said. - 18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM 871 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments. - 18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM 912 Views
Okay, another analogy: - 18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM 898 Views
joel, you need to consider three things - 18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM 952 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain. - 18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM 1001 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense - 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM 1074 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy." - 18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM 913 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses - 19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM 933 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it? - 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM 1217 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP - 18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM 877 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin." - 18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM 1137 Views
wow, you are totally correct! - 18/01/2012 03:45:54 PM 906 Views
That is a separate issue. - 18/01/2012 04:01:24 PM 905 Views
Thank you for posting that. - 18/01/2012 03:09:07 PM 925 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me - 18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM 758 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation. - 18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM 981 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation - 18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM 903 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else. - 18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM 881 Views
Strike three. - 18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM 939 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing. - 18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM 755 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me - 18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM 1017 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no. - 18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM 862 Views
Re: Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no. - 19/01/2012 12:15:48 AM 934 Views
That is a poor approach to drafting legislation, at best. - 19/01/2012 04:37:22 PM 974 Views
About "proposing new legislation" - 18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM 1018 Views
So true - 18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM 955 Views
Not to go off on a tangent about combatting piracy... - 18/01/2012 05:38:12 PM 856 Views
Entirely agree *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:13:13 PM 607 Views
That was an excellent post. *NM* - 19/01/2012 11:18:19 PM 585 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation" - 18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM 1093 Views
For those who want a short, one page explanation... - 18/01/2012 05:41:49 PM 886 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM 670 Views
We get it: You are a polyglot. - 18/01/2012 06:27:48 PM 876 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM 654 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM* - 19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM 516 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM* - 19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM 644 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM* - 19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM 458 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... - 19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM 1003 Views
They all did it on twitter - 19/01/2012 01:26:19 AM 939 Views
I was asleep much of the day - 19/01/2012 02:40:11 AM 997 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students! - 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM 1026 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA. - 19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM 988 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place? - 20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM 1089 Views
a joke can, indeed, be rebutted... - 21/01/2012 09:07:32 PM 975 Views
Oh, draggie, I ALWAYS see what you do there. - 21/01/2012 10:01:58 PM 933 Views

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