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It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
That example is willfully misleading voters. Unless you're trying to say that DMV offices/similar entities may do something like this, I don't see how it's relevant to my point.

And, honestly, I think that's rather paranoid. Your example was not a government office. It was a CAMPAIGN MANAGER. If you want to make the argument that even the government can and will intentionally mislead voters...well you're welcome to make it but it's still incredibly paranoid and I don't think has a place in the discussion of normal life :P


I don't think it's paranoia to point out something that has already happened that's on this topic. Yes, it's not exactly the same as voter id laws, but it's in the same opera.

I never claimed that the government would intentionally mislead voters. This is an example of a district that's majority African American getting a robo call that the election has already been decided and that they can stay home. It's not that much of a stretch to imagine a robo call that says that the voter id laws in your state have been changed recently and make it seem more difficult than it actually is to vote. Such a robo call could say something like "anyone voting will be investigated for illegal immigrants residing in their homes" or you cannot vote if you don't have a valid us passport. The element of truth (that voter id laws have been changed) makes it more effective.

Edit: Also: this is an example of real election fraud. By real I mean the kind that is actually taking place, not the imaginary kind.
This message last edited by Vivien on 18/01/2012 at 11:45:33 PM
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1805 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 486 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 917 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 812 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 957 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 523 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 769 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 624 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 726 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 671 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 833 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 821 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 474 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 862 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 821 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 746 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 468 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 817 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 494 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 570 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 838 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 483 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 513 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 806 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 820 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 869 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 880 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 749 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 947 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 843 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 933 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 477 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 966 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 484 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 871 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 810 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 485 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 848 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 862 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 584 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 495 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 879 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 826 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 770 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 515 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 386 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 843 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 498 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 882 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 845 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 817 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 777 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 999 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 897 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 822 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 821 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 860 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1011 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 766 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 861 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 882 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 808 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 499 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 800 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 740 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 734 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 772 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 978 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 892 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1086 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 846 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 954 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 734 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 957 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 800 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 969 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 839 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1034 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 784 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 724 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 772 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 871 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1008 Views

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