If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
Even Congress concedes that. I DO think the onus should be on sites to control what goes through their pipes, but also agree there should be a limit to that onus, one that stops well short of effectively disconnecting them if they happen to miss something. The appropriate response would be a process by which offending content would be removed, subject to independent oversight. Part of the problem here is that we already have a law very close to that (the main difference is the lack of independent oversight,) its inadequacy to the task motivated the pending legislation and the same people who are most critical of the pending legislation are highly critical of that inadequate laws "censorship."
It is hard to take critics of the pending legislation seriously when they argue the existing law that does not do enough actually does too much.
As with so much of government, the bottom line remains: Tell them what they SHOULD do instead of what they should NOT do.
It is hard to take critics of the pending legislation seriously when they argue the existing law that does not do enough actually does too much.
As with so much of government, the bottom line remains: Tell them what they SHOULD do instead of what they should NOT do.
Congress hasn't really conceded anything. Nothing has been changed, so far- SOPA was "delayed," which means "we were hoping to pass this without fuss, but now that people are actually paying attention, we're hoping you'll all forget about this pretty soon."
Exactly. A new law is coming, so get used to it. What you must decide now is what you want it to be. "Nothing" is not an option.
It's all well and good to say that "sites should be responsible for what is on their pages," but what SOPA means is that if I posted a picture of Batman wearing a funny hat, RAFO could be summarily blocked due to a copyright complaint.
So tell them to alter that provision and there is a really good chance they will. Tell them to just drop the whole matter and there is NO chance they will.
And finally, with regard to your "doesn't do enough, does too much" comment: The point is that "pirates" and "hackers" (these shadowy figures that are being pointed to as a kind of monolithic Axis of Evil) wouldn't be slowed by SOPA in the slightest- there are pretty basic ways to access sites anyway. That's the "doesn't do enough" part.
The "does too much" part is that it sets in place infrastructure to monitor, control, and censor every aspect of the Internet. That was the point of my Denmark story- that even though it starts out saying "oh, we just want to stop this one thing," it becomes a tool that can be used for much more.
The "does too much" part is that it sets in place infrastructure to monitor, control, and censor every aspect of the Internet. That was the point of my Denmark story- that even though it starts out saying "oh, we just want to stop this one thing," it becomes a tool that can be used for much more.
The POINT is that rather than evil Big Media cruelly trying to imprison innocent decent people who have done nothing except violate multiple EXISTING laws hundreds of times a month and thumb their nose at resulting fines, the proposed law would send those people to prison, which would significantly curtail their piracy. It certainly sounds like the bill as written casts too wide a net, and criminalizes too much that it should not, so raise those objections and suggest alternative conditions for those criminal penalties. But do not pretend they are never warranted, or expect Congress to share that view, 'cos it ain't gonna happen.
As far as "we cannot allow evil Big Brother this kind of power to abuse!" once again, they already have it, so I suppose we are all doomed.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
- 17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
2103 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
- 17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
938 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"? 
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1041 Views
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1041 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
- 17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
1133 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
- 17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
987 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter. 
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1092 Views
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1092 Views
I love you. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
632 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
619 Views
*NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
619 Views
Can i second the adulation?
- 18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
824 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
617 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
- 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
990 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
- 18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
943 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
- 18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
1408 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
- 18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
1006 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary.
- 18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
1003 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
- 18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
1016 Views
OK.
- 18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
1038 Views
should be interesting
- 17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
862 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
- 17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
930 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
- 17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
948 Views
So tell them that.
- 17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
1092 Views
Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
- 18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
895 Views
Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
- 18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
1011 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
- 17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
866 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
- 17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
1005 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
- 18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
846 Views
There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
971 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
842 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
1106 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
962 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
975 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
960 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
1243 Views
Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
869 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
- 18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
871 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
- 18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
913 Views
Okay, another analogy:
- 18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
898 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
904 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
- 18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
1017 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
- 18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
992 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
943 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
- 18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
893 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
- 18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
959 Views
I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
983 Views
Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
807 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
- 19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
990 Views
joel, you need to consider three things
- 18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
952 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
- 18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
1001 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
- 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
1074 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
- 18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
913 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
- 19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
933 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
- 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
1217 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
- 18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
877 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
- 18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
1137 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me
- 18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
758 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
- 18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
981 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
- 18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
903 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
- 18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
881 Views
Strike three.
- 18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
939 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
- 18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
755 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
- 18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
1017 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
- 18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
862 Views
About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
1018 Views
So true
- 18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
955 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
1093 Views
Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
- 18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
1046 Views
I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
- 18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
966 Views
Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
887 Views
Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
976 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
- 18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
1098 Views
These are really different arguments
- 19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
868 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
- 19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
861 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
670 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
654 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
516 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
644 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
458 Views
I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
561 Views
I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
645 Views
Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
1041 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
- 19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
1003 Views
Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
691 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students! 
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1026 Views
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1026 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
- 19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
988 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
- 20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
1089 Views