again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
moondog Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but does the government not already have that POWER and AUTHORITY? Are we not talking about legislation that simply expaning the basis on which both can be USED without violating US law? It certainly SOUNDS like the bills under consideration would just streamline the process whereby commerical entities can get government to take down a site for alleged copyright infringement. In terms of government abusing regulatory power, denying all access to sites with content it does not want people to see: It could do that now, yet there is little evidence it does, so I do not see why these bills would change that.</quote
no, currently the feds can only prosecute if the content -- actual CONTENT, not links -- are illegal by nature. the feds have *some* power to shut down websites which perform illegal activities as they should. making filesharing a crime instead of a civil matter is not the best use of our time and energy when there are far more important things to be solved first. the provisions in sopa/pipa would give the central DNS authority of the internet to the federal government, a power it does not currently have and should not ever get. not to mention that by giving the government this power, we would set back the work to make the internet more secure by years, if it could even be implemented once the DNS portion passes.
3
Wait, I am confused: People keep keep saying these bills would "fundamentally alter the internets infrastructure," but you seem to be saying the most populous country on Earth ALREADY engages in the most restrictive practice contained in these bills. It sounds like another case where the government would not gain a new power, but simply EXERCISE an existing one far more often and broadly, on behalf of a lot more commerical interests.
Wait, I am confused: People keep keep saying these bills would "fundamentally alter the internets infrastructure," but you seem to be saying the most populous country on Earth ALREADY engages in the most restrictive practice contained in these bills. It sounds like another case where the government would not gain a new power, but simply EXERCISE an existing one far more often and broadly, on behalf of a lot more commerical interests.
you're saying you want china's model for the internet in the US? the US internet is only able to bring down illegal operations on the internet, it cannot currently block websites at the DNS level. it should never have that power. if this part passes, we may as well just literally put the constitution through a shredder. "congress shall make no law..." and all that stuff.
As far as "changing the internet as we know it," well, it would hardly be the first time. Really, the amount of international public in/output to what is essentially a 40 year old DARPA project is staggering, and huge evidence Big Brother will not arbitrarily trample on the rights of netizens who owe their landscape to it. Yet change is coming, as surely as you no longer plug your phone into a modem and dial up your favorite BBS at a lightning fast 1200 baud rate to read the text only content. The internet has changed many times since we were born, is a lot bigger than even fifteen years ago, and governments regulatory presence WILL change to reflect that. The reasonable and responsible course for anyone concerned by that is to clearly and specifically state the forms they want the presence to take, not demand the government "stay out of" an internet it created, over which it has always retained authority within its borders and that only subsists by government sufferance.
how has the inherent operation of the internet changed from those modem days to now? the only thing it's done fundamentally different is shift from gopher/lynx to http and instituted an addressing scheme that will prevent us from running out of IP addresses. the protocols which control traffic flow have always been decentralized once the educational institutions started jumping on and the old DARPA project went into the public realm. but yet, even in those old days, the government did not have the power to just turn off access to any location it did not want anyone to see. the best you could do was to put a password and/or moderators in place to police the content.
at the heart of what is being proposed, this is the essential argument. the way it works now is that a content creator sends a cease and desist letter (via the DMCA provisions) to a site it believes is infringing their copyright. the site has a specified amount of time to respond, and must temporarily remove the content while the matter is investigated. the way the bill is written, it's up to the admin of each and every site on the internet to check every page they have for infringing links and remove them automatically whether they can be proven to be infringing or not. tell me why it's better to have every website owner in charge of policing someone else's copyright? the reason copyright exists is to give the content creator some means of legal control of their copyright. this bill allows the major studios to stop having to enforce their own copyright and force everyone else to do it for them. the reason it comes down to "make NO legislation" is because the current laws are already adequate and are already abused. why do we need to make something EASIER to abuse than the current system?
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
- 2103 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
- 938 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
- 1040 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
- 1132 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
- 986 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter.
18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
- 1092 Views
I love you. *NM*
18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
- 632 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
- 619 Views
Can i second the adulation?
18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
- 823 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
- 617 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
- 988 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
- 943 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
- 1408 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
- 1006 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary.
18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
- 1001 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
- 1016 Views
OK.
18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
- 1037 Views
should be interesting
17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
- 862 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
- 930 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
- 946 Views
So tell them that.
17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
- 1092 Views
Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
- 894 Views
Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
- 1011 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
- 866 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
- 1005 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
- 846 Views
There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
- 970 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
- 840 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
- 1106 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
- 962 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
- 975 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
- 959 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
- 1242 Views
Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
- 867 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
- 871 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
- 912 Views
Okay, another analogy:
18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
- 897 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 903 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
- 1016 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
- 992 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
- 941 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
- 892 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
- 958 Views
I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
- 982 Views
Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
- 807 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
- 989 Views
joel, you need to consider three things
18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
- 952 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
- 1000 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
- 1074 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
- 913 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
- 932 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
- 1215 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
- 876 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
- 1137 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me
18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
- 757 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
- 981 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
- 902 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
- 879 Views
Strike three.
18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
- 939 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
- 754 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
- 1017 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
- 862 Views
About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
- 1017 Views
So true
18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
- 955 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
- 1092 Views
Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
- 1045 Views
I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
- 965 Views
Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
- 885 Views
Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
- 975 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
- 1098 Views
These are really different arguments
19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
- 868 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
- 860 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
- 670 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
- 654 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM*
19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
- 516 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
- 644 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
- 458 Views
I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
- 561 Views
I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
- 645 Views
Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
- 1040 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
- 1003 Views
Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
- 691 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
- 1026 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
- 987 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
- 1087 Views