The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
Picture a giant outdoor wall. Or, even better, thousands of them, in varying sizes.
Anyone can post whatever they want up there, generally- the wall space is there, they just have to make the poster. If someone posts something particularly awful, then police figure out who posted it, arrest them, and take down the offending poster.
What these bills do is put the onus of the policing on whoever owns the wall.
So, instead of having a big, public wall where people can put up their posters, now each owner of every wall will have to examine every poster that goes up, make sure it conforms to any number of dozens, hundreds, of different rules, and then finally put it up. If the owner doesn't do this, he will get fined, maybe worse.
In this analogy, the posters are ANYTHING you post on the web, ANYWHERE. Links, pictures, videos, text.
Which, you might say, is OK. Things people post should be regulated. Except the extent and scope of these bills are insane. It's like saying that, to prevent anyone from shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater, every single person should have to carry a recorder that monitors what they say.
The internet is heavily, HEAVILY dependent on user content. RAFO is an example- we come here to read the posts, and also post our own things. How would it be if our admin had to manually sift through every single thing we post?
____
Of course, it probably wouldn't happen like that. What WOULD happen is, the Internet would turn into Youtube. Do you know much about Youtube's policies?
Basically, Youtube has to deal with thousands of banned videos a day. Sometimes it's porn, sometimes it's copyrighted content, sometimes it's something else. The point is, there is SO MUCH of it that, whenever someone registers a complaint, it is essentially yanked off of the site immediately. There's no way to stop it, and appealing it is a HUGE headache.
Youtube isn't the Evil Empire, of course- it's just a business. And even though it's part of a big corporation, it just doesn't have the manpower to manually review every challenge and make a thoughtful, measured decision. Plus, the risk is too high- do they really want to be sued by NBC over the definition of "fair use?"
That is what the internet would turn into. Big sites, like Youtube, could handle it, though they'd likely get a bit more draconian. Little sites would dry up, because they wouldn't be able to afford the kind of intense regulation the bills require.
Anyone can post whatever they want up there, generally- the wall space is there, they just have to make the poster. If someone posts something particularly awful, then police figure out who posted it, arrest them, and take down the offending poster.
What these bills do is put the onus of the policing on whoever owns the wall.
So, instead of having a big, public wall where people can put up their posters, now each owner of every wall will have to examine every poster that goes up, make sure it conforms to any number of dozens, hundreds, of different rules, and then finally put it up. If the owner doesn't do this, he will get fined, maybe worse.
In this analogy, the posters are ANYTHING you post on the web, ANYWHERE. Links, pictures, videos, text.
Which, you might say, is OK. Things people post should be regulated. Except the extent and scope of these bills are insane. It's like saying that, to prevent anyone from shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater, every single person should have to carry a recorder that monitors what they say.
The internet is heavily, HEAVILY dependent on user content. RAFO is an example- we come here to read the posts, and also post our own things. How would it be if our admin had to manually sift through every single thing we post?
____
Of course, it probably wouldn't happen like that. What WOULD happen is, the Internet would turn into Youtube. Do you know much about Youtube's policies?
Basically, Youtube has to deal with thousands of banned videos a day. Sometimes it's porn, sometimes it's copyrighted content, sometimes it's something else. The point is, there is SO MUCH of it that, whenever someone registers a complaint, it is essentially yanked off of the site immediately. There's no way to stop it, and appealing it is a HUGE headache.
Youtube isn't the Evil Empire, of course- it's just a business. And even though it's part of a big corporation, it just doesn't have the manpower to manually review every challenge and make a thoughtful, measured decision. Plus, the risk is too high- do they really want to be sued by NBC over the definition of "fair use?"
That is what the internet would turn into. Big sites, like Youtube, could handle it, though they'd likely get a bit more draconian. Little sites would dry up, because they wouldn't be able to afford the kind of intense regulation the bills require.
Even Congress concedes that. I DO think the onus should be on sites to control what goes through their pipes, but also agree there should be a limit to that onus, one that stops well short of effectively disconnecting them if they happen to miss something. The appropriate response would be a process by which offending content would be removed, subject to independent oversight. Part of the problem here is that we already have a law very close to that (the main difference is the lack of independent oversight,) its inadequacy to the task motivated the pending legislation and the same people who are most critical of the pending legislation are highly critical of that inadequate laws "censorship."
It is hard to take critics of the pending legislation seriously when they argue the existing law that does not do enough actually does too much.
As with so much of government, the bottom line remains: Tell them what they SHOULD do instead of what they should NOT do.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
- 2102 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
- 937 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
- 1039 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
- 1131 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
- 986 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter.
18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
- 1090 Views
I love you. *NM*
18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
- 632 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
- 619 Views
Can i second the adulation?
18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
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I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
- 617 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
- 988 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
- 942 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
- 1408 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
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I would not have thought a source necessary.
18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
- 1001 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
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OK.
18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
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should be interesting
17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
- 860 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
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See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
- 946 Views
So tell them that.
17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
- 1090 Views
Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
- 893 Views
Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
- 1010 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
- 866 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
- 1004 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
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There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
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Re: There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
- 1105 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
- 960 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
- 973 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
- 959 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
- 1241 Views
Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
- 867 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
- 870 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
- 912 Views
Okay, another analogy:
18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
- 897 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 903 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
- 1016 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
- 990 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
- 941 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
- 892 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
- 957 Views
I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
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Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
- 805 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
- 989 Views
joel, you need to consider three things
18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
- 951 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
- 999 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
- 1073 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
- 911 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
- 931 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
- 1215 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
- 876 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
- 1135 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me
18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
- 756 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
- 981 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
- 901 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
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Strike three.
18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
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That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
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Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
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Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
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About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
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So true
18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
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Re: About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
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Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
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I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
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Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
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Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
- 974 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
- 1096 Views
These are really different arguments
19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
- 868 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
- 859 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
- 670 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
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Or just disable Java. *NM*
19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
- 516 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
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Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
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I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
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I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
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Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
- 1040 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
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Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
- 691 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
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13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
- 987 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
- 1087 Views