Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
Thing is, the administration has effectively suspended action on both bills pending already solicited public feedback and suggested improvements. Reacting to that with blackouts and protests that "we MUST stop this fascist law threatening the very existence of all ehumanity111" seems like the typical over the top hysteria that breaks out every time the US government considers clamping down on peoples "freedom" to do any irresponsible or larcenous thing they like on the internet that government created. It might be a great way for people to vent their spleens, but will not change anything, because it does not provide any of the superior alternatives the administration has requested.
You really shouldn't trivialize this. Even if I can't convince you of the detriment these bills would cause, you can't pretend this is just the geeks flipping out over nothing. There are a lot of MAJOR companies actively lobbying for both sides. Hundreds of websites are going to black out tomorrow, including some huge names. Heck, even Google has thrown their weight in and announced that they're going to protest the bill on their homepage. To my knowledge this sort of thing has never happened before.
Also, this is nowhere near over, as you seem to be saying. SOPA, which was tabled for a bit, has just been revived. PIPA goes to the floor for a vote in 7 days. Oh, and about the blackouts? Most of them were formulated/planned before the white house's announcement. Guess what, though? Google, Scribd, Wordpress and a lot of other big sites joined the protest AFTER the Obama administration had already come out against the bills. Clearly, there are some major powers out there that don't think this is anywhere near "over."
Meanwhile, the government WILL enact SOME kind of legislation to restrict activity it deems undesirable; there are ample and powerful strategic reasons to do so wholly apart from any commercial ones. That "next generation security protocol that we badly need"? I am QUITE sure Congress, the President and the DoD agree with you on that need; instead of inciting mass epanic over their attempts to implement SOMETHING in that direction, why not include that in a response to their reasonable request that people tell them "not what is wrong, but what would be RIGHT"? Because as long as the definition of "right" is "nothing at all" they will dismiss that ludicrously untenable "suggestion."
That's just the thing; there's already a LOT of legislation out there! The entertainment industry has enormous censorship powers online. How many times have you gone to watch a video, only to see "this video has been removed due to copyright violations?" Such things don't require anything more than a request! Heck, arstechnica, a major tech blog with over 10 million unique viewers per month, lost their official Facebook page for several days due to an anonymous copyright complaint that didn't specify the infringing content. How about that? There is more than enough legislation in place.
Let's move on, though, and talk about your comment regarding the White House's request for "what would be right?" There is, of course, nothing wrong with them asking that question. It doesn't make sense, though, to pass a bad bill just because there's no other solution on the table. The current situation, flawed though it may be, is preferable to the SOPA/PIPA bills. The overwhelming opinion among those not connected to the entertainment/content industry is that this bill will cost the economy far more than it saves. It doesn't make sense to pass something if the "solution" does more harm than good!
The US government will not preserve, not just commercial vulnerabilities to piracy, but national vulnerabilities to military espionage, surveillance and sabotage, simply because the netizens of the world feel threatened by attempts to eliminate those vulnerabilities. Nor should it. There WILL be a new regulatory law; the only question is whether the people most affected by it choose to be involved with its design and thereby produce a largely positive law that accomplishes necessary reform and regulation without unduly censoring anyone or restricting their access to data that should be freely available. If, however, this is just another case of people asserting their "right" to download the location of US missile silos, and their computer access codes, then the government will ignore them, as it should.
Wait, what? "National vulnerabilities to espionage?" Neither SOPA nor PIPA have any meaningful impact on "national security."
Just out of idle curiosity, do we have an estimate of how many of the sites and servers that might be shut down under this law are actually owned and operated by the US government? I know the internets infrastructure has experienced a lot of private growth in the past decade or two, but have we reached the point where the internet could just keep on truckin' if the US government took all its systems offline tomorrow? If the answer is "no" is it all that unreasonable for them to perform at least a LITTLE regulation of that infrastructure, certainly their share of it? Just enough that the hundreds of daily cyberattacks from China do not shut down our radar defenses or download schematics of an Abrams MBT?
There would be zero impact if the US government took its systems offline, except for the websites they directly operate (.gov and .mil sites, primarily). The government does not own or operate any of the internet's important infrastructure. It does maintain final approval over the root DNS zone, but that's only a regulatory thing that it won't let go of, not a service provided to help the internet stay afloat.
SOME legislation is necessary, because "controlling access to content" includes very sensitive federal content. There WILL BE a new law, and taking an absolutist position against ANY new law does nothing but squander any role in determining its specifics. If you do not like what the current legislation says (and it sounds like there is good reason to dislike it) provide constructive input on alternative solutions. "Keep the government out of the internet" does not qualify, makes critics sound like anarchist malcontents to be ignored, and cedes all involvement in designing the inevitable legsilation to the very big business interests you do NOT want monopolizing that role. It also seems like a bumper sticker protesting cars.
I am not saying we should pass the current bills simply because no alternative is on the table. I am saying that if no one presents such an alternative that is EXACTLY what will happen.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
- 2103 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
- 938 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
- 1041 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
- 1132 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
- 986 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter.
18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
- 1092 Views
I love you. *NM*
18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
- 632 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
- 619 Views
Can i second the adulation?
18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
- 823 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
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Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
- 989 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
- 943 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
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"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
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I would not have thought a source necessary.
18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
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Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
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OK.
18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
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should be interesting
17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
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Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
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See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
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So tell them that.
17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
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Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
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Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
- 1011 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
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I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
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Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
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There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
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Re: There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
- 962 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
- 975 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
- 959 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
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Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
- 867 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
- 871 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
- 912 Views
Okay, another analogy:
18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
- 898 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 903 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
- 1017 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
- 992 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
- 943 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
- 892 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
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I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
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Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
- 807 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
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joel, you need to consider three things
18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
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You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
- 1001 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
- 1074 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
- 913 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
- 932 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
- 1215 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
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"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
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Wikipedia has already convinced me
18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
- 757 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
- 981 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
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No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
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Strike three.
18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
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That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
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Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
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Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
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About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
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So true
18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
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Re: About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
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Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
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I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
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Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
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Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
- 975 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
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These are really different arguments
19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
- 868 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
- 860 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
- 670 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
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Or just disable Java. *NM*
19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
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That's not as much fun though. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
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Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
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I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
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I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
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Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
- 1041 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
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Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
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Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
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13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
- 988 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
- 1088 Views