It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow".
Tom Send a noteboard - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
To massively generalize, in America today Republicans are mostly conservatives, and conservatives find their base in the rural populations and split the suburbs with Democrats because people in the middle class under pressure will tend to revert to conservative values. Democrats are mostly liberals, and liberals find their base in urban populations and that portion of the suburbs which feels confident enough to be able to pay to support government programs.
The reason I just massively generalized is because in modern voting cycles, voter fraud manifested in the form of ballot-box stuffing is most easily conducted in urban areas by individuals with poor or no ID credentials - the homeless, the indigent, and other people who are transient for one reason or another (e.g., students). These people tend to vote Democratic.
As a result, any attempt to force ID cards is opposed by Democrats, who see in such attempts a manifestation of a historic conservative form of voter fraud, namely, denial of voting rights. Of course, this was historically conducted by white Democrats, but at the time conservatives in the South were Democrats because it was the Republicans who "invaded" under Lincoln. The Jim Crow laws were part and parcel of a wider social scheme to keep blacks disenfranchised, outside of political and socioeconomic power structures and marginalized in society generally.
Democrats like to play down the risk of voter fraud, but groups investigating the 2008 election (and even more so, the 2008 Democratic primary) have uncovered evidence of massive voter fraud in the form of ballot-box stuffing. Whether the evidence is merely the "tip of the iceberg" as Republicans claim or an "exaggeration" as Democrats claim, is an argument that can go on for years.
However, my personal opinion is that ballot-box stuffing is a significant and serious risk, and there are enough "get out the vote" and "voter registration" type organizations out there that can help ensure that everyone gets an ID card. It is easy enough to implement and maintain, and not an unbearable burden. It increases faith in the electoral system and that is a good thing. It decreases the ability of people to delegitimize an election on the grounds that "the dead voted", or that officials cast ballots for people on voter lists who didn't show up.
The reason I just massively generalized is because in modern voting cycles, voter fraud manifested in the form of ballot-box stuffing is most easily conducted in urban areas by individuals with poor or no ID credentials - the homeless, the indigent, and other people who are transient for one reason or another (e.g., students). These people tend to vote Democratic.
As a result, any attempt to force ID cards is opposed by Democrats, who see in such attempts a manifestation of a historic conservative form of voter fraud, namely, denial of voting rights. Of course, this was historically conducted by white Democrats, but at the time conservatives in the South were Democrats because it was the Republicans who "invaded" under Lincoln. The Jim Crow laws were part and parcel of a wider social scheme to keep blacks disenfranchised, outside of political and socioeconomic power structures and marginalized in society generally.
Democrats like to play down the risk of voter fraud, but groups investigating the 2008 election (and even more so, the 2008 Democratic primary) have uncovered evidence of massive voter fraud in the form of ballot-box stuffing. Whether the evidence is merely the "tip of the iceberg" as Republicans claim or an "exaggeration" as Democrats claim, is an argument that can go on for years.
However, my personal opinion is that ballot-box stuffing is a significant and serious risk, and there are enough "get out the vote" and "voter registration" type organizations out there that can help ensure that everyone gets an ID card. It is easy enough to implement and maintain, and not an unbearable burden. It increases faith in the electoral system and that is a good thing. It decreases the ability of people to delegitimize an election on the grounds that "the dead voted", or that officials cast ballots for people on voter lists who didn't show up.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 15/01/2012 at 06:22:03 PM
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM
- 1879 Views
From what I understand ...
15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM
- 991 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things
15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM
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Well.
15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM
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The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM
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I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM*
16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
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That is kind of pathetic.
17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM
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It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is.
15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM
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That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM*
15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM
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I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate...
15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM
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it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM*
15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM
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Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID.
15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM
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i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM*
15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM
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It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow".
15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
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Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction
15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM
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This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM*
15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM
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It is not a black and white issue
16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
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I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM*
16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM
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I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM*
16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM
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that's too obvious.
16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM
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You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit
16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM
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have you ever had a rabbit?
16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM
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A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit
16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM
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that's just what they want you to think.
16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM
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Viscous does not mean Magical
16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
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Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM*
16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM
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well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her
16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM
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Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this:
15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM
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definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina.
15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM
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You could walk. *NM*
16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM
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Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away
16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM
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7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM*
16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM
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probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless.
16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM
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Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence.
17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM
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No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case
16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM
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It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times...
16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM
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Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM*
16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM
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that would be interesting. *NM*
16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM
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By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.)
17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM
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I don't see how it does
15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM
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Re: I don't see how it does
15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM
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I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV
16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM
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Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM*
16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM
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Also passports work too in most places. *NM*
16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM
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those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM*
16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM
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It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution
16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM
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Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem
16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM
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can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem?
16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM
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In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted
16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM
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That's smoke and mirrors
16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
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It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point
16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM
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You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system
16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM
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I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article
16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM
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Question for you
16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM
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I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need.
16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM
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becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM*
16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM
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Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM*
16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM
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Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM*
17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM
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I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM*
18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM
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Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM*
18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM
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Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM*
19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM
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If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.)
16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM
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Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM
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I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other.
16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM
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I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military
16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM
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I'm not reading the article but...
17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM
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maybe there's no excuse in your area
17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM
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I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM
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Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM
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What? I'm the only one who cares?
18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM
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Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM*
18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM
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I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM*
18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM
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imo, fervor has no place in political discussion
18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM
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And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics.
18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM
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That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner
18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
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Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style.
18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM
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What?
18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM
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What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before?
18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
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the problem with that last point is...
18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM
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Yes.
18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM
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That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though.
18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM
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It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently.
18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
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What's your real question?
18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM
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Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question.
18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM
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Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised.
19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM
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I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so.
19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
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