First off, it's 2011. Using the word "hippie" makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about; more to the point, it makes you sound like Cartman.
A lot of what you're saying sounds like it's being parroted from TV news pundits. It's incredibly easy to dismiss an entire subset of the country by calling them rapists and morons. Have you been to any of these protests? They're pretty orderly, up until police start shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters. And even if everyone protesting, all of the thousands of people from all walks of life, was a heroin addict that kicked puppies, that wouldn't change what they were protesting.
A lot of what you're saying sounds like it's being parroted from TV news pundits. It's incredibly easy to dismiss an entire subset of the country by calling them rapists and morons. Have you been to any of these protests? They're pretty orderly, up until police start shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters. And even if everyone protesting, all of the thousands of people from all walks of life, was a heroin addict that kicked puppies, that wouldn't change what they were protesting.
I have been to three different cities to observe these protests. The question is...have you been to any of them? It is not all that peaceful, especially if you disagree with them. It is really easy to score just about any type of drug you want and the site of people smoking Mary Jane is very common. And by the way, those places smelled worse than New Orleans during Mardi Gras.
You say that there isn't a defined message? That's a complaint from a few months ago. This... isn't actually particularly difficult. The Occupy protests are protesting the level of power corporations have, specifically the level of power they have over the government.
There really isn't. All three places I went all had different messages. About the only thing that was the same is that they don't want to pay their college loans. This coming from the people to whom I spoke.
It may seem "ill-defined" because it's such a pervasive problem.
It seems ill-defined because it is ill-defined. IF the problem was so pervasive, it would be easy to define. They all chant about the 1% and claim to speak for the 99%, Eat the Rich make them pay. But you try to ask about anything specific and the people leading this thing will NOT give you an answer. Listen to the Diane Rehm show on NPR from Nov. 16th (this past week). She keeps trying to ask what their values are and no one answers. The shift aside and one person says that the movement is growing because it is ill-defined.Massive bailouts.
Incredibly dishonest banking and investment policies, with little to no punishment from the law (If Citibank makes a billion or two in profit from shady deals, millions in fines won't discourage that).
Lobbyists, and corporations donating massive amounts of money to fund "their" candidates re-election.
The courts saying that a corporation is considered a "person."
Is this something you disagree with? Do you think that banks and corporations have no interest in politics, and have not been trying to exert their influence? Or do you know that they do, and don't mind? (These aren't rhetorical questions- I'm honestly interested in your response to these specific questions).
Wow. Just wow. This is some kind of stupid. You think those are messages? Those are not values. This is part of the problem. There is no message there except, "money and government bad." There is no direction to the movement.
There are laws against most of the stuff that happened. But what you have is an administration (most of them in the last 50 years) who keep doing the same things and letting these things slide because it has no backbone and only wants to get re-elected and not hurt the party. You also have the body responsible for making the laws not wanting to rock the boat because they like it like that.
They're not protesting the fact that they have to pay their credit cards. They're not protesting student loan debt. (Student loan debt is an issue that could use some examining/regulation, but it's nowhere near the focus of these protests).
Yes. They are, this is part of the whole occupy movement and one of the few things that are found in the different ones I have been. They are angry that they signed a contract saying "You give me X amount now, and I will pay you X amount for Y amount of time," and don't want to live up to their side of the contract because they think it unfair.
Finally, when thousands of people, all over the world (yes, the world) are protesting something, over an extended period of time, maybe your gut reaction shouldn't be "Oh, they're all just drugged-out losers, morons, and rapists." Historically, when there have been massive, ongoing protests, who ends up being in the right? Is it the people who sit at home, smirking, going "Everything's just fine, those guys are idiots?"
Just because it is widespread, doesn't mean it is legitimate or coherent or correct. The Catholic Church Sex Scandal was widespread. That didn't make it right. Communism was widespread. That didn't make it right either. This "movement" in other countries has been much more violent than it has here.
The Occupy movement doesn't want values. It doesn't what coherency. There is no idea beyond the "let's protest". There are no goals.
PS. Also, a little advice: Maybe you shouldn't tell peaceful protesters that they're not living up to the ideals of America.
I will tell any group with members defecating on The Flag (as I saw this weekend) precisely this.
Castle: This is so weird. I dressed up as him for Halloween.
Beckett: Me too.
~When Castle and Beckett met Gene Simmons.
Beckett: Me too.
~When Castle and Beckett met Gene Simmons.
An Open Letter to All People with Nothing Better To Do
20/11/2011 10:49:21 AM
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Huzah! A man chooses and a slave obeys! *NM*
20/11/2011 10:56:42 AM
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Yeah, 'cos YTs comments are all about disobedience, and the OWSers are all about submission.
20/11/2011 12:24:36 PM
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Actually, my comment are about taking responsibility for yourself. *NM*
20/11/2011 05:48:33 PM
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As usual you miss the point completely. *NM*
20/11/2011 08:27:02 PM
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You want people vocally refusing slavery to return to slavery; I got the point.
21/11/2011 11:24:21 PM
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If what I was saying amounted to that than what your arguing for would to...
22/11/2011 06:32:04 AM
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This is also not about you; the response to which you replied here has been edited accordingly.
22/11/2011 08:10:21 AM
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How much violence has there actually been?
20/11/2011 12:35:54 PM
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Re: How much violence has there actually been?
20/11/2011 12:44:00 PM
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Because it's easy.
20/11/2011 12:49:02 PM
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I think it's great that student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy.
20/11/2011 06:27:27 PM
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Asian parents have the right idea
20/11/2011 08:49:39 PM
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because that's not a huge generalization of an entire race...
20/11/2011 09:05:26 PM
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every pakistani, indian, viet, chinese, cambodian person I know (and thats a lot) ....
20/11/2011 09:27:34 PM
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I had a lot of asian peers in class growing up with parents who were not like that
20/11/2011 10:35:45 PM
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I understand that, and agree to a certain extent.
20/11/2011 11:53:30 PM
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To take it a step further
21/11/2011 02:36:49 AM
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Fees are mostly increasing because of tuition increase caps paired with state funding cuts
21/11/2011 01:50:02 PM
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Ultimately, there is only black and white, but they mix freely and liberally in the real world.
21/11/2011 11:38:34 PM
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HUZZAH! Very well said.
20/11/2011 01:20:48 PM
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Our leaders should be held accountable for refusing to lead, and we for accepting that.
22/11/2011 12:09:51 AM
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I think people were jeering OWS for not being "focused" because there are so many damn problems
20/11/2011 04:54:24 PM
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Largely true, in many respects; again, the Tea Party had much the same problem for the same reasons.
22/11/2011 12:26:29 AM
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It is WEIRD when Ron Paul consistently comes off as the least insane GOP candidate
22/11/2011 02:56:33 AM
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Yeah, I recall that link, and still do not entirely agree with it.
22/11/2011 04:16:13 AM
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"There are plenty of jobs and pay"... Do you read the news? *NM*
20/11/2011 12:42:30 PM
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Yep, there are lots of jobs...
20/11/2011 05:49:58 PM
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Re: Yep, there are lots of jobs...
22/11/2011 04:01:35 AM
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I know about a dozen Philosophy Majors off the top of my head, all of whom are gainfully employed.
22/11/2011 11:36:47 AM
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Re:I know about a dozen Philosophy Majors off the top of my head,all of whom are gainfully employed.
24/11/2011 04:30:00 AM
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Excercise in creative thinking...
20/11/2011 06:45:49 PM
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So you think there's no real unemployment problem aside from people being lazy and entitled? *NM*
21/11/2011 03:32:16 AM
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I'm sorry dude, but there ARE jobs.
20/11/2011 07:21:21 PM
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but what kind of jobs?
20/11/2011 08:08:58 PM
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"My plastic surgeon" WTF Aisha
20/11/2011 08:36:13 PM
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Im a nurse
20/11/2011 09:24:14 PM
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You had me worried about the young girl I used to know for a moment. *NM*
21/11/2011 01:01:04 AM
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I actually have a lot of respect for plastic surgeons outside pure cosmetics
21/11/2011 01:02:59 AM
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job that pay money
20/11/2011 08:57:55 PM
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lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
20/11/2011 09:35:07 PM
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Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
20/11/2011 10:29:16 PM
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Re: lets face it. all the jobs you just mentioned are jobs illegals take
21/11/2011 12:19:52 AM
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That's a shitty situation
21/11/2011 12:24:20 AM
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First of all, I worked at a dairy and have a friend who busses tables.
20/11/2011 10:32:39 PM
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Actually it is the case in some parts of America. Just not the parts that get mentioned.
22/11/2011 04:05:44 AM
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Doesn't matter when people aren't there, or people don't have the required skills.
20/11/2011 11:51:53 PM
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If you can drive a truck I can get you a job tommorw hauling sand for fracing *NM*
02/09/2012 09:32:39 PM
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...I feel like you've been getting all of your information from TV News. This isn't about bills.
20/11/2011 04:35:13 PM
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Better question is have you been to any of them?
20/11/2011 06:42:02 PM
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Wait...you think there is a problem with courts treating corporations as persons?
20/11/2011 08:33:43 PM
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You know what he meant.
20/11/2011 09:32:59 PM
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You're talking about the Supreme Court case Citizens United v. Federal Elections Commission.
20/11/2011 10:38:43 PM
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Pretty sure the inception of corporations was not 1886.
22/11/2011 05:45:31 AM
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You do realize...
22/11/2011 06:01:47 AM
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Almost anything CAN happen.
22/11/2011 07:43:31 AM
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Actually I think we should be prosecuting these people
22/11/2011 07:46:56 AM
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Well, this is a red letter day; I agree with nearly, perhaps ENTIRELY, all of what you said here.
22/11/2011 07:59:42 AM
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You're right. I will hand you your ass on this one. If you give me gloves before touching it.
23/11/2011 02:26:35 PM
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Funny how once we as a society used protesting for non personal gain ...
20/11/2011 08:49:37 PM
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Good post
20/11/2011 09:13:12 PM
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The UN is clearly out of touch with reality.
20/11/2011 10:44:44 PM
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"There is no right to work"?
22/11/2011 05:50:30 AM
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That would be a legal right relating to unions not a basic human right. *NM*
22/11/2011 05:57:34 AM
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Right; there is a right to work when it suits you, and not when it does not.
22/11/2011 07:16:40 AM
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...do you know what "right-to-work" in those states entails?
22/11/2011 07:55:02 AM
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I would not pretend to be an authority on it, no, but broadly speaking, yes.
22/11/2011 08:12:50 AM
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Also, do you even have a job yet? *NM*
22/11/2011 06:02:11 AM
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Ikke ennĂ¥.
22/11/2011 07:28:27 AM
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So do you think there is no cause whatsoever for protest?
21/11/2011 03:31:04 AM
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I don't think the protest is about being people feeling entitled
22/11/2011 07:45:50 AM
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Re: I don't think the protest is about being people feeling entitled
24/11/2011 03:07:09 AM
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