Active Users:454 Time:25/11/2024 10:06:56 PM
You do know that they initiated violence at Kent State, right? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 20/11/2011 02:45:57 PM
Not that I am saying it was justified against people just passively sitting there, but you have to admit it was not exactly Kent State all over again. To be fair, this is the first I have heard of it, so I do not know much about the context or the full extent of the incident; I did find it interesting when I googled it just now that even the article on it in the notoriously conservative Washington Times was fairly critical (and, for anyone unaware of what that means, while I was there I saw a link to another times article on "Obamas denigrate America tour.")
Of course, what really irritates me is that people seem to have no historical context. Like, take a look at any of the giant protest movements over the last 100 years. When, in ANY of them, has the history sided with "police officers who attack unarmed protesters?"

Pretty much never, though there have been some surprising examples of the people responsible walking away unscathed. The Bonus Army is the one that always comes to mind for me: Douglas MacArthur ordered the army to attack (twice,) George Patton led a cavalry charge against a tent city occupied by veterans and their families and both men went on to fame and glory in the Second World War a decade later.

Of course, all of that goes out the window as soon as any protestor initiates violence, and even defensive violence can destroy public support if it is not VERY CLEARLY self defence. At that point the moral highground is lost and the protest is guaranteed a status somewhere between the Haymarket Riots and John Browns raid on Harpers Ferry.
Also, people using the word "hippie" simply because they're protesters. It's 2011, that's like calling anyone in a Starbucks a "beatnik."

Ugh.

You mean insluting and demeaning to the legacy of hippies? :P I dunno; in retrospect I cannot help feeling a lot of hippies were just spoiled middle class draft dodgers who wanted to get wasted and laid, and as soon as they no longer had to fear the draft they bought in, piled on and sold out. ;)


As most of the Occupy Wall Street protestors' objection to materialism and capitalist greed is their inability to participate. There is nothing admirable here, just a bunch of petty, immature losers acting on an unwarranted sense of entitlement, and almost certainly from the same demographic that was so excited three years ago about the Hope and Change candidate, sponsored by the same financial community they protest today. What is more, this whole notion of "Occupying" Wall Street serves only to interfere with other members of the 99%, as the majority of people who work on Wall Street are, as well as the ones most directly impacted by the stock market's failures. Protesting a bad economy at Wall Street is like protesting a military defeat at an army base - you might be upset about the ripples you're feeling, but you're acting on it by harassing those whose very livelihoods are concerned with those events, and who have probably lost friends and colleagues as well.

As far as the violence and so forth goes, the narrative crafted after the fact will reflect what those writing it want it to. Someone mentioned historical context in this thread, but they are just stringing together a bunch of unrelated protests, and not looking at the individual contexts of those. For example, Martin Luther King Jr's march on Selma was against the advice of all sorts of civil rights leaders, including the black community of Selma, because for all intents and purposes, they had already won. Instead, his glory-seeking march sparked excessive retaliation from Bull Connors and revitalized his lame-duck career, rallying the support of opponents of the civil rights movement, not to mention drawing down the violence on children and other human shields King incited to march. His own obnoxious behavior does not justify what was done in response, but after the fact, the narrative reflects this pointless & unnecessary conflict which only served to inflate the reputations of the irresponsible leaders on both sides, is reflected as a grand triumph after the fact.

Likewise at Kent State, it was hardly like the National Guard marched in and started randomly gunning down hippies. It was in the aftermath of attacks on guardsmen, of female demonstrators feeding them drugged snacks and the shooting itself was precipitated by someone throwing stuff at them. Yet history remembers them as the wrongdoers.

When race riots were sweeping the country, Chicago was largely spared (as were most of the cities in the South), because of Mayor Daley's expressed willingness to allow the police to shoot back in the eventuality.

Lets all try to remember that this country was founded by men like John Adams who defended the soldiers who shot at the mobs in the Boston Massacre, not by the "demonstrators".
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
An Open Letter to Police Officers Across America - 20/11/2011 03:27:46 AM 1303 Views
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. - 20/11/2011 03:59:42 AM 781 Views
I am forced to agree. - 20/11/2011 04:37:07 AM 616 Views
You're right, but stuff like what just happened at UC Davis makes my blood boil - 20/11/2011 05:52:11 AM 598 Views
As such things go, that does not seem too bad to me. - 20/11/2011 06:14:54 AM 779 Views
You do know that they initiated violence at Kent State, right? - 20/11/2011 02:45:57 PM 588 Views
You really do make this too easy. - 21/11/2011 10:28:31 PM 830 Views
hear hear *NM* - 20/11/2011 04:47:12 AM 278 Views
Agreed. - 20/11/2011 06:28:18 AM 732 Views
I agree with everything you said in this post. *NM* - 20/11/2011 07:53:07 AM 246 Views
a little late for that - 21/11/2011 01:54:34 PM 530 Views
What the fuck are you on? I need to get some of that. *NM* - 20/11/2011 04:56:00 AM 292 Views
I'm going to start a counter protest with "Bring back the Pinkertons" signs... - 20/11/2011 05:19:19 AM 566 Views
*NM* - 20/11/2011 05:49:35 AM 353 Views
I seen some guys holding signs saying "occupy a desk" *NM* - 21/11/2011 01:55:38 PM 305 Views
One of the most poorly written pieces of shit I've read in a long time. *NM* - 20/11/2011 06:30:29 AM 354 Views
"unarmed and peaceful protestors" - 20/11/2011 01:15:47 PM 613 Views
armed and violent? really? *NM* - 21/11/2011 05:31:44 PM 272 Views
Declaring people "enemy combatants" means they get to treat you as such too. - 20/11/2011 01:55:51 PM 581 Views
Don't cloud the propaganda with logic, Tim! - 20/11/2011 04:16:05 PM 614 Views
That's the problem with a two-party system: it's practically impossible to form a new party. *NM* - 20/11/2011 05:42:39 PM 250 Views
I think that's completely wrong. - 20/11/2011 06:10:15 PM 652 Views
The odds are very long. - 20/11/2011 07:15:54 PM 722 Views
And implicit in my statement above is the following addendum - 20/11/2011 06:14:40 PM 739 Views
I agree with that. However, many seem to think that means it's OK to beat them up. - 20/11/2011 06:21:05 PM 608 Views
Only if they resist arrest, and then the force must be proportionate. *NM* - 20/11/2011 09:52:39 PM 274 Views
If they resist a lawful arrest, sure. *NM* - 21/11/2011 11:11:11 AM 267 Views
they are breaking the law so it is lawful to arrest them *NM* - 21/11/2011 10:46:18 PM 263 Views
In what way? - 22/11/2011 09:12:01 AM 591 Views
Resisting arrest. Duh. *NM* - 22/11/2011 10:11:04 AM 271 Views
You are not allowed to just block sidewalks and camp wherever you want - 22/11/2011 01:54:42 PM 567 Views
In that case I quite agree. - 22/11/2011 02:08:02 PM 543 Views
Its still okay to beat communists up though right? *NM* - 21/11/2011 11:27:14 AM 260 Views
(OWS isn't anti-capitalism) - 20/11/2011 06:39:37 PM 530 Views
You've posted this, but you don't seem inclined to defend it, one might ask what the point was? - 21/11/2011 05:16:13 PM 522 Views
He'd post, but this is what happened. - 22/11/2011 03:55:43 AM 498 Views
I'm actually calling for them to start using lethal force. *NM* - 22/11/2011 03:46:24 AM 304 Views

Reply to Message