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Are you correcting yourself or qualifying your statement? Isaac Send a noteboard - 19/10/2011 06:30:34 AM
Unless we hold to the idea that any rename or reform is abolishing, and I don't think any of us view that as the case. Privatizing SS recognizes the need force some active role in government pressuring and/or incentivizing saving for one's retirement. One might not agree that it is a good idea but it nevertheless isn't the same as removing it entirely.

That remains my biggest problem with Obama/Romneycare, which provides an illustrative parallel. First and foremost, most people without social security insurance in the '20s had the desire but not the means, just as most people without health insurance now. Giving them "option" of putting money they do not have into retirement plans is no more helpful than Obama/Romneycare is; FORCING them to do so despite the fact they cannot is simply cruel. More to the point, in neither case is an option they already had but could not use a "system" of any kind, private or otherwise. It is not "the ownership society," but the "own"ership society: Taxes aside, everyone is entirely on their own.


You're changing the subject here, and did not address my point. Whether or not privatizing - or any of the other options - is a good idea is a different matter. At the end of the day, calling for football teams to be owned by states or individual large companies, like say Pepsi Pirates as opposed to Oakland Raiders, the Michigan Maulers as opposed to the Detroit Lions, is not tantamount to 'abolishing football'. That doesn't make it a good or bad idea, and you may object to privatizing social security but you do not bother to discuss the merits, merely throw reckless invective at the concept and use terms just as charged and much less accurate as the 'death panels' you raised Holy Hell about to do it while using ALL CAPS, so I'll match you... No serious reform or change can ever take place while we are FORCING anyone who runs for office to tread over eggshells lest they say something that might conceivably scare someone, and the very inevitably of that occurring with any single-source government entitlement is the strongest reason not to have them or ever expand them without the most dire of urgency and necessity.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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So I am curious. What do our site conservatives think of Cain? - 18/10/2011 09:35:47 AM 915 Views
You'd probably be better off asking after tomorrow's debate - 18/10/2011 10:19:50 AM 741 Views
He wasn't Abel ^_^ *NM* - 18/10/2011 01:24:57 PM 223 Views
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *NM* - 18/10/2011 06:44:55 PM 221 Views
I have trouble taking him seriously - 18/10/2011 01:59:23 PM 611 Views
That is the problem with all Romneys opponents. - 18/10/2011 03:32:50 PM 623 Views
what positions of Perry's do you consider radical? - 18/10/2011 03:56:30 PM 515 Views
Well, abolishing Social Security is pretty far out there, and publicly threatening the Fed Chairman. - 18/10/2011 04:50:03 PM 722 Views
yes but I was talkin about his actuall posistions not the made up stuff *NM* - 18/10/2011 05:10:47 PM 301 Views
When the candidate "makes them up" they are positions. - 18/10/2011 05:26:18 PM 532 Views
all you need to do is provide a link supporting your claim that Perry said he wants to abolish SS - 18/10/2011 05:56:23 PM 460 Views
Really? Do you not watch the news? That's common knowledge *NM* - 18/10/2011 06:04:06 PM 214 Views
I believe what RT means ... - 18/10/2011 06:22:42 PM 507 Views
No it isn't a fine point - 18/10/2011 06:48:00 PM 663 Views
He said he wants private retirement accounts instead, which is abolishing Social Security. - 18/10/2011 10:44:33 PM 645 Views
Privatizing isn't the same as abolishing - 18/10/2011 10:53:04 PM 577 Views
It is unless the governments role is more than "you MUST do this; figure out how on your own." - 19/10/2011 12:10:25 AM 641 Views
Are you correcting yourself or qualifying your statement? - 19/10/2011 06:30:34 AM 627 Views
Really give me link *NM* - 18/10/2011 06:38:24 PM 217 Views
It is ridiculously simple; here ya go: - 18/10/2011 08:15:24 PM 569 Views
OK he doesn't like it now give me the link where he wants to abolish it - 18/10/2011 09:29:38 PM 508 Views
You see no conflict between this post and your next one? - 18/10/2011 10:16:21 PM 659 Views
no I don't - 18/10/2011 11:36:38 PM 590 Views
By his own statements he either wants to end it or violate the Constitution. - 19/10/2011 12:13:33 AM 559 Views
you really excell at misunderstanding *NM* - 19/10/2011 12:30:32 AM 240 Views
and Perry is right about SS being unconstitutional - 18/10/2011 09:44:14 PM 487 Views
And you criticize MY choice of "unbiased" sources.... - 18/10/2011 10:33:56 PM 658 Views
I'm not a conservative, but - 18/10/2011 04:56:22 PM 555 Views
*hi5* *NM* - 18/10/2011 05:05:19 PM 230 Views
Imagine there is no pizza *NM* - 19/10/2011 12:02:36 AM 236 Views
Cain is the anti-christ? *NM* - 19/10/2011 12:18:21 AM 198 Views
Post-debate, my opinion is fairly unchanged - 19/10/2011 06:35:32 AM 716 Views
Romney slapped Perry down so hard tonight. It was wonderful. - 19/10/2011 06:53:52 AM 613 Views
It was that, I rather enjoyed it - 19/10/2011 07:10:49 AM 557 Views
I promise - 19/10/2011 10:33:49 AM 647 Views
I can see the buttons now: "Vote for... something... maybe...!" - 20/10/2011 10:46:44 AM 987 Views
...the words made sense by themselves, but when I put them together, meaning vanished. - 20/10/2011 11:33:46 AM 530 Views
Try sounding out each word. - 20/10/2011 11:59:25 AM 593 Views
let me ask you this about Cain - 19/10/2011 01:47:36 PM 634 Views
Why is that, would you think? - 19/10/2011 06:29:53 PM 583 Views
There just seems to be strong lack of good choices - 19/10/2011 06:50:25 PM 616 Views
I'm getting the same impression... not necessarily worse candidates, just more criticism. - 19/10/2011 08:37:21 PM 758 Views
I blame the press - 19/10/2011 09:05:36 PM 721 Views
Amen to that. I agree with everything you say. - 19/10/2011 09:49:45 PM 648 Views
I blame the public, and, to a lesser degree, Nielsen and Armitron. - 20/10/2011 11:39:43 AM 635 Views
tl;dr *NM* - 20/10/2011 12:19:03 PM 219 Views
Still prefer "TL;DV." - 20/10/2011 12:33:41 PM 656 Views
Re: There just seems to be strong lack of good choices - 20/10/2011 03:25:20 PM 866 Views
don't get me wrong I am not calling for a moderate - 20/10/2011 04:02:01 PM 780 Views
Re: let me ask you this about Cain - 20/10/2011 07:05:43 AM 569 Views

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