Or they could just do more math. Cold, hard, beautiful math.
Vivien Send a noteboard - 21/09/2011 04:01:05 PM
Logic is a subset of mathematics and actually we did study some logic in the math classes in high school. The most involved (and fun!) were the geometry proofs. I guess it could be fun to have a concentration on non technical applications.
It seems that people have more and more difficulty with logic these days. I just interacted with a Facebook friend who posted a Zeitgeist-style montage about September 11 that uses inductive reasoning to lead the viewer to infer that 9/11 was an inside job. Yes, we've heard this rubbish before.
The interesting thing is that there was not one positive fact to support what the video was implying. It was just a string of false statements, mischaracterizations and warping of the truth to present a skewed view of what happened. "Are we really supposed to believe 19 guys with boxcutters led by a dialysis patient in a cave managed to..." is how it starts.
Of course, Zeitgeist was a bit more sophisticated. It just lied to the viewer and presented the lies as "facts". That it became as popular as it did is a testament to a failure of critical reasoning rather than logic. People accept things told to them as "facts" as true (unless, of course, the person is anti-American and the facts are presented in mainstream media sources; the flip side is also true, cf. "death panels").
However, this reminded me of Camilla's post about the Jewish professor who was pilloried for trying to discuss the difference between valid and invalid opinions.
I think the Internet is drastically reducing the critical thinking and logic skills for a great number of people. This site is perhaps an exception, as people are far more careful in their arguments, but a cursory review of the comments at CNN, the BBC, the Guardian or (shudder) Twitter will show a mass of ignorance, unbroken by even the faintest hint of actual intelligence.
Seriously, let's push for logic classes. Teach Euler circles, Occam's Razor, sets, Hell - drag Star Trek into the classroom and find examples of Spock using logic in the series (as opposed to just categorizing something as "illogical" or "highly illogical"). We need logic in the Internet age, and we need it badly.
The interesting thing is that there was not one positive fact to support what the video was implying. It was just a string of false statements, mischaracterizations and warping of the truth to present a skewed view of what happened. "Are we really supposed to believe 19 guys with boxcutters led by a dialysis patient in a cave managed to..." is how it starts.
Of course, Zeitgeist was a bit more sophisticated. It just lied to the viewer and presented the lies as "facts". That it became as popular as it did is a testament to a failure of critical reasoning rather than logic. People accept things told to them as "facts" as true (unless, of course, the person is anti-American and the facts are presented in mainstream media sources; the flip side is also true, cf. "death panels").
However, this reminded me of Camilla's post about the Jewish professor who was pilloried for trying to discuss the difference between valid and invalid opinions.
I think the Internet is drastically reducing the critical thinking and logic skills for a great number of people. This site is perhaps an exception, as people are far more careful in their arguments, but a cursory review of the comments at CNN, the BBC, the Guardian or (shudder) Twitter will show a mass of ignorance, unbroken by even the faintest hint of actual intelligence.
Seriously, let's push for logic classes. Teach Euler circles, Occam's Razor, sets, Hell - drag Star Trek into the classroom and find examples of Spock using logic in the series (as opposed to just categorizing something as "illogical" or "highly illogical"). We need logic in the Internet age, and we need it badly.
We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools.
20/09/2011 06:50:36 AM
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Logic classes would be good in schools.
20/09/2011 10:23:56 AM
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Ugh.
20/09/2011 11:30:59 AM
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Re: Ugh.
21/09/2011 12:03:31 AM
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Something tells me that no matter who answered your questions you wouldn't believe anyway.
21/09/2011 02:16:52 AM
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this is a controlled demolition
21/09/2011 12:20:09 AM
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I've seen controlled demolitions in person. They happen in the opposite order of the WTC collapses.
21/09/2011 03:54:35 AM
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Agreed
20/09/2011 01:09:40 PM
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I've long advocated this for the reasons Tom states as well as others.
21/09/2011 06:49:28 AM
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I don't know if the Internet is degrading skills, or just giving stupid people a voice
20/09/2011 02:33:24 PM
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There is compelling evidence that 9/11 was not what it seemed
20/09/2011 03:06:58 PM
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No, there is not.
20/09/2011 03:19:43 PM
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Well, the circumstances were odd at least
20/09/2011 03:26:40 PM
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As far as conspiracies go ...
20/09/2011 03:36:35 PM
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what would be the motive for the US doing something that stupid?
20/09/2011 04:40:31 PM
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I'm not sure you got my gist.
20/09/2011 04:46:28 PM
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I don't think there is any evidience that Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9-11
20/09/2011 05:21:09 PM
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Um. Well, sure, that would be true. If you ignored all the evidence.
20/09/2011 05:45:23 PM
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Well if you had argued that some Bush advisers wanted to attack Iraq I would have agreed
20/09/2011 06:35:07 PM
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But that's what I DID argue.
20/09/2011 06:47:17 PM
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sorry but you need to be more precise in your terms
21/09/2011 02:37:36 PM
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I've always seen them as separate.
21/09/2011 03:33:14 PM
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And the explicit statement of a Bush Cabinet member.
21/09/2011 06:59:47 AM
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I'm still annoyed.
21/09/2011 01:58:38 PM
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I stopped responfding when suddenly realized I didn't want to be in a Bush Iraq war debate
21/09/2011 02:53:29 PM
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and I pointed that it was was just continuin gthe Clinton policy
21/09/2011 02:30:13 PM
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Even if that were true, it would still be flip flopping on a central Bush platform plank.
21/09/2011 05:45:10 PM
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In addition:
20/09/2011 05:57:33 PM
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Contemplate this....
20/09/2011 04:27:52 PM
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You just did not go Star Trek on me
20/09/2011 04:44:28 PM
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You should watch the pilot episode of the X-Files spin-off series The Lone Gunmen.
20/09/2011 08:19:15 PM
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Make 'em all take debate.
20/09/2011 08:23:37 PM
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Re: We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools.
21/09/2011 12:10:08 AM
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Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...?
21/09/2011 01:05:18 AM
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Not actually the best example
21/09/2011 01:56:03 AM
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what about the hole it cut into the frame of the building?
21/09/2011 03:23:07 AM
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The fireproofing was scraped off the steel by the crash, so the beams melted.
21/09/2011 07:35:08 PM
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Re: Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...?
21/09/2011 03:02:19 AM
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You would force Euler on to the masses?
21/09/2011 03:21:40 PM
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You could still argue.
21/09/2011 04:06:51 PM
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I didn't mean to imply that it is no fun to argue with a like-minded person
21/09/2011 04:15:47 PM
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Or they could just do more math. Cold, hard, beautiful math.
21/09/2011 04:01:05 PM
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Now we are talking... Everyone can benefit from some basic Euclid.
21/09/2011 08:32:17 PM
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I really and truly appreciate your love of pure math for math's sake, but...
21/09/2011 11:10:03 PM
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Well, it requires a lot more science to really dispute things than HS can give someone
21/09/2011 11:28:29 PM
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