Precisely; every Mormon you ever meet will ALWAYS insist they're Christian.
Joel Send a noteboard - 16/08/2011 01:57:06 PM
every mormon i ever met insists they are Christian so i took their word for it. I watched all 5 seasons of Big Love, but i didnt want to base my opinion on Mormons based on that, i though they were the fringe, but apparently some of that "crazy" stuff is part of mainstream Mormon belief. i personally dont care or think we have anything to fear from a Mormon president, Its like when people were afraid of Kennedy being Catholic, it doesnt really affect how they govern because we have congress to offset any crazy (hopefully).
And a lot of them, I'd say the vast majority, actually are; they just don't realize they're rejecting foundational LDS doctrines in the process. I know the Kennedy comparison is popular, but Kennedy was just Roman Catholic laity, not a Bishop, and didn't spend eight years as the head of Bostons diocese (Wikipedia claims that's the closest analogy to a Mormon "stake", and that Romney led the Boston Stake from 1986-1994). If he had, I imagine those questions about whether President Kennedy would take his orders from Rome would've been a bit more pointed. He certainly wouldn't have been able to dismiss unanswered questions about what his beliefs even are when he presided over the very priesthood responsible for teaching and maintaining those beliefs in congregations.
We're not talking about someone like Harry Reid, who's a lay Mormon (but didn't let that stop him criticizing the churchs official support for Prop. 8) with political beliefs a lot better known than his religious ones. We're not even talking about Jon Hunstman (to whom Romney is related through one of the original LDS "Twelve Apostles") claiming to be spiritual rather than religious. We're talking about a "ward bishop" who led the Boston Stake for nearly a decade and whose fathers eligibility to even BE President was disputed on the grounds that he was born in Mexico while his father and mothers were on the run from the US government for practicing plural marriage. Like I say, anyone concerned about Huckabee being President and a priest should be at least as concerned about Romney, who would be the same thing except that he's:
1) a far HIGHER RANKING priest and
2) far LESS OPEN about what he believes and how it would dictate his policy, except in telling us he switched from a pro-choice governor to a pro-life presidential candidate because of his beliefs.
In all fairness, I think that and all Romneys flip flops were more about pandering first to liberal MA voters when he wanted to be governor and now conservative Republican ones when he wants to be President. On the other hand, that mainly indicates someone who will and has espoused ANY political agenda in pursuit of the political power to enact an agenda that's STILL unknown despite the fact he's been running for president for half a decade. All we can know for certain is that Romneys presidential agenda will be consistent with LDS church agenda, not because he's loyal to the latter, but because he's intimately involved with creating and directing it. I might be OK with that if he didn't deflect all questions about it as routinely as other LDS church leaders do but, of course, he does.
At it's core, my problem is this:
1) The Mormon church promotes itself as Christian but
2) is NOT Christian because
3) it consistently affirms non-Christian doctrines that God was formerly a sinful mortal and man will eventually take Gods place by perfecting himself and
4) LDS church leaders take great pains to conceal the above for obvious reasons, making me wonder what else they're concealing as
5) they actively pursue commercial, media and political power for the church throughout the world.
Number 4 is particularly important, both because it reeks of a hidden agenda, and because it means much of the Mormon laity is as genuinely ignorant of non-Christian LDS doctrine as non-Mormons are. There's a face LDS leaders show the world, another they show the general laity, and yet a third they show each other; no one else sees the last one so we can only guess what it is--or elect a Mormon church leader President and let him show us then; if not George Romney after he parlayed business influence into a successful presidential run, then his son a generation later.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 16/08/2011 at 02:02:14 PM
Tim Pawlenty drops out of the race
14/08/2011 07:20:58 PM
- 1182 Views
Bummer, I liked him. *NM*
14/08/2011 07:23:42 PM
- 308 Views
Yeah, him and Cain are the only ones I actually liked to hear talk
14/08/2011 07:38:08 PM
- 625 Views
Grumpy and just nuts enough to be entertaining, from what I've heard...
14/08/2011 08:15:15 PM
- 705 Views
Probably better to say he's not polished
14/08/2011 08:46:37 PM
- 623 Views
Yeah, as Aisha says, it's the Islam issue he sounded the craziest on...
14/08/2011 11:16:20 PM
- 795 Views
Re: Yeah, as Aisha says, it's the Islam issue he sounded the craziest on...
15/08/2011 12:02:22 AM
- 639 Views
well I don't think his posistion on Israel will play much of a factor one way or the other
15/08/2011 02:07:55 AM
- 582 Views
I've never really gotten to know him... which kind of says enough.
14/08/2011 07:35:40 PM
- 691 Views
I think Michelle Bachman and Herman Cain are awesome. You should consider them *NM*
14/08/2011 09:25:55 PM
- 333 Views
About fucking time. Now if we could just get Santorum to drop, too.
14/08/2011 09:28:53 PM
- 670 Views
He'd indicated he would
14/08/2011 11:47:03 PM
- 823 Views
Oh, I don't think Bachmann WILL be kingmaker, but that's her goal.
15/08/2011 02:39:51 PM
- 620 Views
bachman is gonna be the vice presidential nominee for either Perry or Romney
15/08/2011 04:22:33 AM
- 648 Views
funny that I only see liberals making an issue of his religion *NM*
15/08/2011 05:13:03 AM
- 313 Views
It's a clumsy attempt to poison the well
15/08/2011 05:59:26 AM
- 581 Views
Re: It's a clumsy attempt to poison the well
15/08/2011 07:13:01 AM
- 640 Views
Dems used to chase the evangelical vote, and the Church never should've permitted a political coup.
15/08/2011 09:22:53 AM
- 824 Views
For the record, I'm not trying to poison any wells.
15/08/2011 09:54:53 AM
- 675 Views
I think the deal with Huckabee
15/08/2011 07:21:08 PM
- 630 Views
Huckabee didn't hide his beliefs, but also made clear he wouldn't try to legislate them.
16/08/2011 12:58:48 PM
- 679 Views
yeah i guess it was s liberal Fox reporter/talking head/whatever the Eff they are called
15/08/2011 07:07:07 AM
- 685 Views
I'm not sure why she had to apologize for saying that.
15/08/2011 09:56:39 AM
- 645 Views
because its not true? Mormons ARE Christians arent they?
15/08/2011 04:52:32 PM
- 675 Views
Except their founder taught, and his church teaches, that man is his own savior.
15/08/2011 05:54:28 PM
- 666 Views
well ok then, i didnt know all that
15/08/2011 06:58:22 PM
- 1136 Views
Precisely; every Mormon you ever meet will ALWAYS insist they're Christian.
16/08/2011 01:57:06 PM
- 756 Views
So nutcase liberals and one woman on Fox News and she had the decency to apologize *NM*
15/08/2011 02:04:44 PM
- 328 Views
I find that highly unlikely.
15/08/2011 02:47:35 PM
- 730 Views
I personally am considering voting for Romney , but I wouldnt underestimate Bachman and her power
15/08/2011 04:58:19 PM
- 664 Views
Also, it is very likely that Palin will not enter.....
14/08/2011 09:58:48 PM
- 676 Views
besides the fact that they both have west Texas accents what similarites?
15/08/2011 01:59:45 AM
- 642 Views
By the way, why did Kay B Hutch run against him in the primary election?
15/08/2011 03:43:52 AM
- 615 Views
Some did want to dump him, over the toll roads and mandatory HPV vaccines for school girls.
15/08/2011 03:58:38 AM
- 689 Views
you call losing by 15 points competing? *NM*
15/08/2011 04:07:08 AM
- 293 Views
It was 12.9%, which is pretty good for a Dem in a very red state during a very red year.
15/08/2011 04:26:58 AM
- 665 Views
Isn't that almost the exact same numbers Obama lost by in Texas?
15/08/2011 05:02:57 AM
- 646 Views
Roughly; are you going to pretend that 2010 was as good a year for Dems as 2008?
15/08/2011 05:34:32 AM
- 622 Views
there was a perception that he was vulnerable
15/08/2011 04:48:41 AM
- 738 Views
He was vulnerable, he only won in 06 with 39 percent of the vote *NM*
15/08/2011 01:14:43 PM
- 303 Views
I have to agree with the take that it's symptomatic of a larger problem.
14/08/2011 10:23:02 PM
- 674 Views
There's no "victory laurel" there. The Iowa straw poll is as irrelevant as lint in one's navel.
14/08/2011 11:13:36 PM
- 685 Views
Largely true; it matters to people like Bachmann who need credibility, but to few others.
15/08/2011 12:20:48 AM
- 777 Views
unnamed sources from left leaning news source? who could question that *NM*
15/08/2011 01:25:07 AM
- 392 Views
Just because you don't like the quote doesn't make the person citing it "left leaning".
15/08/2011 02:00:15 AM
- 659 Views
It was a quote from Politico which is a left leaning news blog and the sources were unnamed
15/08/2011 02:14:09 AM
- 639 Views
If you say so.
15/08/2011 03:53:08 AM
- 652 Views
so you are going to just ignore the fact that your entire argument is based on unnamed sources?
15/08/2011 05:12:01 AM
- 590 Views
I'm not surprised no Republican wants to go on the record with that.
15/08/2011 05:51:47 AM
- 570 Views
I'm kinda curious how this thread got controversial
15/08/2011 06:26:15 AM
- 616 Views
Probably because I opined my impression that most of the viable GOP field looks pretty unimpressive.
15/08/2011 09:11:45 AM
- 1841 Views
I look at politics like I look at sports and call races on what I believe will happen
15/08/2011 02:47:35 PM
- 658 Views
Normally I'd say that's the best approach, but in US politics all teams play for the same owner.
15/08/2011 04:04:43 PM
- 1083 Views
I am trying to keep it to just the facts and my opinion of the race
15/08/2011 02:49:47 PM
- 534 Views
Are we surprised by this?
15/08/2011 07:05:59 PM
- 614 Views