Normally I'd say that's the best approach, but in US politics all teams play for the same owner.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/08/2011 04:04:43 PM
But for the sake of argument, I'll play along with the premise that what American voters think has a real impact on our leadership.
No, he won't need a Palin to activate his base, but Obama's already activated them; meanwhile, he'll effortlessly alienate EVERYONE ELSE just by being a social conservative Texas governor. The "anyone but Obama" line is telling, because I think this is more like the '04 Dem primary than the '08 GOP primary: A field of second tier candidates guaranteed the base will show up to vote against the opposition, but hard pressed to attract independents, moderates and cross party voters. The only one who has anything to offer the rest of the country is Romney (if you catch him on the right day... ), who's also the only well known, well funded and well connected candidate who has widespread name recognition in the rest of the country (well, Palin and Bachmann have name recognition, but the first has it by "virtue" of saying stupid things and the second by saying vicious things on the national stage). Indeed, the funding and flip flops only underscore the similarities between the primary that produced Kerry and the one that will produce Romney, and Republicans may find out that flip flopping doesn't give you bipartisan appeal, it just makes you look weak. Of course, having the LDS and Wall Street on his side when Obama's numbers are worse than Bushs in '03 may make Romney an irresistible force, but that will almost certainly be the case in the primaries.
If that weren't enough, as trzaska notes, Bachmann will cut into the far right base on which Perry must rely for the nomination; he has to run against her before he can run against Romney, and that's a hard row to hoe. He's been in the race all of four days and he's already having trouble on that front because of the HPV vaccine. Not only does this bit of spin risk earning Perry the same painful flip flop brand as Romney, but the manner leaves a lot to be desired. Telling voters, "I didn’t do my research well enough" doesn't exactly scream "great leader" (although forcing every kid in the state to use a drug only available from one of your campaign donors who has a lobbyist related to your chief of staff is vintage good ol' American crony capitalism, even if it is classic big government on our backs). Saying, "what we should of done was a program that frankly allowed them to opt in or some type of program like that.... " sure sounds like that evil big government to me; remember: Government programs are ALWAYS bad (e.g. NASA, the US Army, Medicare). I don't expect much, if any bounce for Perry once he becomes well known; MAYBE with the far right GOP "Christian" conservative base (as long as they don't hear about his big government attempt to force the HPV vaccine on every kid in TX) but, on the contrary, the more well known he becomes the flatter his numbers will be. The only people who'll back him will be far right social conservative religious voters, and a lot of them may bolt over big government property seizures and HPV vaccines (on the other hand, an IRS lawyer who's received all the federal pork and welfare Bachmann has isn't in great shape there either, but she's already known and accepted by the base).
I don't know that the media is really trying to sell Perry as a far right social conservative, unless you consider the Perry campaign part of the "liberal media". Really, the story sells itself; as you yourself have noted the main policy difference is that, if anything, Perry is to the right of Bush. Do you really think America has gone THAT far right, or that Obama's approval rating dropping below 40% will push them there? A lot of the flack Obama's getting is for not standing up to Republicans more; that's not how the Republicans who try to reflect accusations of selfish immature stubborness feel but, once again, they didn't vote for him last time either. That may be the biggest problem with Republicans trying to run on the Ryan plan and their traditional "down with American government" mantra (but then, it always seemed strange that a group that accuses all dissenters of treason hates its own government so much): It won't be easy to convince a nation of people who've lost their jobs, homes and are still waiting for the healthcare they voted for three years ago that they need LESS government help, and that the solution is to drop more tax breaks in the laps of the criminal robber barons who imploded the global economy with deliberate, naked and unpunished fraud. The problem with the traditional Republican tactic of going after lazy "welfare queens" is that 1) much, if not all, of the fraud and waste was cut during the welfare reform of the '90s and 2) too many people are ON welfare now to want it cut.
EDIT: OK, let's go with "Romneys flip flops meet Bachmanns radicalism"; the article also references his recent invocation, which I'd forgotten, of the Tenth Amendment to let states decide whether to allow abortion and gay marriage, which kind of flies in the face of what he said on Pat Robertsons TBN just WEEKS ago: That he wants a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, abortion, as well as one requiring a balanced budget (which should give you an idea of how recently he was calling for constitutional bans on the things he now says should be the states call because of the Constitution).
My own political leanings influence how I see things but I try and get around that as best I can. If the Texas primary was today and I would probably vote for Romney if for no other reason than I think he is a better candidate in the general but that doesn't mean I think he will win the primary. I think Romney has so poisoned the well with Romenycare and his flip flopping on social issues that he will have trouble getting his numbers much higher than they are right now and Perry will be the one gaining supporters as others drop out. The republican party is in a "anyone but Obama" mode and will elect almost anyone who they think can beat Obama. If Perry can convince enough people that he can beat Obama he wins the nomination simple as that. Obama's number help that argument since it looks like the rest of the country is moving to the same mode. Lets us see how his poll numbers look after he has been campaigning for three or four months. Better yet wait until after south Carolina, we should have a good picture by then. I don't think this is Perry's race to lose but if I had to put my money on a winner I would put it on Perry before I put it on Romney. I know you don't read a lot of right wing bogs but the hate for Romney runs deep and wide. McCain overcame a similar hate but he did by running against someone who was almost as weak as himself when it comes to inspiring the base, that would be Romney in case you have forgoten. Perry will not need to bring a loose canon like Palin on the ticket to inpire his base.
No, he won't need a Palin to activate his base, but Obama's already activated them; meanwhile, he'll effortlessly alienate EVERYONE ELSE just by being a social conservative Texas governor. The "anyone but Obama" line is telling, because I think this is more like the '04 Dem primary than the '08 GOP primary: A field of second tier candidates guaranteed the base will show up to vote against the opposition, but hard pressed to attract independents, moderates and cross party voters. The only one who has anything to offer the rest of the country is Romney (if you catch him on the right day... ), who's also the only well known, well funded and well connected candidate who has widespread name recognition in the rest of the country (well, Palin and Bachmann have name recognition, but the first has it by "virtue" of saying stupid things and the second by saying vicious things on the national stage). Indeed, the funding and flip flops only underscore the similarities between the primary that produced Kerry and the one that will produce Romney, and Republicans may find out that flip flopping doesn't give you bipartisan appeal, it just makes you look weak. Of course, having the LDS and Wall Street on his side when Obama's numbers are worse than Bushs in '03 may make Romney an irresistible force, but that will almost certainly be the case in the primaries.
If that weren't enough, as trzaska notes, Bachmann will cut into the far right base on which Perry must rely for the nomination; he has to run against her before he can run against Romney, and that's a hard row to hoe. He's been in the race all of four days and he's already having trouble on that front because of the HPV vaccine. Not only does this bit of spin risk earning Perry the same painful flip flop brand as Romney, but the manner leaves a lot to be desired. Telling voters, "I didn’t do my research well enough" doesn't exactly scream "great leader" (although forcing every kid in the state to use a drug only available from one of your campaign donors who has a lobbyist related to your chief of staff is vintage good ol' American crony capitalism, even if it is classic big government on our backs). Saying, "what we should of done was a program that frankly allowed them to opt in or some type of program like that.... " sure sounds like that evil big government to me; remember: Government programs are ALWAYS bad (e.g. NASA, the US Army, Medicare). I don't expect much, if any bounce for Perry once he becomes well known; MAYBE with the far right GOP "Christian" conservative base (as long as they don't hear about his big government attempt to force the HPV vaccine on every kid in TX) but, on the contrary, the more well known he becomes the flatter his numbers will be. The only people who'll back him will be far right social conservative religious voters, and a lot of them may bolt over big government property seizures and HPV vaccines (on the other hand, an IRS lawyer who's received all the federal pork and welfare Bachmann has isn't in great shape there either, but she's already known and accepted by the base).
And if you won't believe that a news source who had reporter on Journalist and who is regularly brought on to MSNBC doesn't lean left then how about the simple fact that unnamed sources trying to push the idea that one candidate is not viable during a heated primary should be taken with huge grain of salt. When it is the narrative the media is already trying to sale it can be pretty much ignored out of hand as political gamesmanship on someone's part.
I don't know that the media is really trying to sell Perry as a far right social conservative, unless you consider the Perry campaign part of the "liberal media". Really, the story sells itself; as you yourself have noted the main policy difference is that, if anything, Perry is to the right of Bush. Do you really think America has gone THAT far right, or that Obama's approval rating dropping below 40% will push them there? A lot of the flack Obama's getting is for not standing up to Republicans more; that's not how the Republicans who try to reflect accusations of selfish immature stubborness feel but, once again, they didn't vote for him last time either. That may be the biggest problem with Republicans trying to run on the Ryan plan and their traditional "down with American government" mantra (but then, it always seemed strange that a group that accuses all dissenters of treason hates its own government so much): It won't be easy to convince a nation of people who've lost their jobs, homes and are still waiting for the healthcare they voted for three years ago that they need LESS government help, and that the solution is to drop more tax breaks in the laps of the criminal robber barons who imploded the global economy with deliberate, naked and unpunished fraud. The problem with the traditional Republican tactic of going after lazy "welfare queens" is that 1) much, if not all, of the fraud and waste was cut during the welfare reform of the '90s and 2) too many people are ON welfare now to want it cut.
EDIT: OK, let's go with "Romneys flip flops meet Bachmanns radicalism"; the article also references his recent invocation, which I'd forgotten, of the Tenth Amendment to let states decide whether to allow abortion and gay marriage, which kind of flies in the face of what he said on Pat Robertsons TBN just WEEKS ago: That he wants a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, abortion, as well as one requiring a balanced budget (which should give you an idea of how recently he was calling for constitutional bans on the things he now says should be the states call because of the Constitution).
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 15/08/2011 at 04:13:30 PM
Tim Pawlenty drops out of the race
14/08/2011 07:20:58 PM
- 1181 Views
Bummer, I liked him. *NM*
14/08/2011 07:23:42 PM
- 308 Views
Yeah, him and Cain are the only ones I actually liked to hear talk
14/08/2011 07:38:08 PM
- 625 Views
Grumpy and just nuts enough to be entertaining, from what I've heard...
14/08/2011 08:15:15 PM
- 705 Views
Probably better to say he's not polished
14/08/2011 08:46:37 PM
- 623 Views
Yeah, as Aisha says, it's the Islam issue he sounded the craziest on...
14/08/2011 11:16:20 PM
- 795 Views
Re: Yeah, as Aisha says, it's the Islam issue he sounded the craziest on...
15/08/2011 12:02:22 AM
- 638 Views
well I don't think his posistion on Israel will play much of a factor one way or the other
15/08/2011 02:07:55 AM
- 582 Views
I've never really gotten to know him... which kind of says enough.
14/08/2011 07:35:40 PM
- 691 Views
I think Michelle Bachman and Herman Cain are awesome. You should consider them *NM*
14/08/2011 09:25:55 PM
- 333 Views
About fucking time. Now if we could just get Santorum to drop, too.
14/08/2011 09:28:53 PM
- 670 Views
He'd indicated he would
14/08/2011 11:47:03 PM
- 823 Views
Oh, I don't think Bachmann WILL be kingmaker, but that's her goal.
15/08/2011 02:39:51 PM
- 620 Views
bachman is gonna be the vice presidential nominee for either Perry or Romney
15/08/2011 04:22:33 AM
- 648 Views
funny that I only see liberals making an issue of his religion *NM*
15/08/2011 05:13:03 AM
- 313 Views
It's a clumsy attempt to poison the well
15/08/2011 05:59:26 AM
- 581 Views
Re: It's a clumsy attempt to poison the well
15/08/2011 07:13:01 AM
- 640 Views
Dems used to chase the evangelical vote, and the Church never should've permitted a political coup.
15/08/2011 09:22:53 AM
- 824 Views
For the record, I'm not trying to poison any wells.
15/08/2011 09:54:53 AM
- 675 Views
I think the deal with Huckabee
15/08/2011 07:21:08 PM
- 629 Views
Huckabee didn't hide his beliefs, but also made clear he wouldn't try to legislate them.
16/08/2011 12:58:48 PM
- 679 Views
yeah i guess it was s liberal Fox reporter/talking head/whatever the Eff they are called
15/08/2011 07:07:07 AM
- 684 Views
I'm not sure why she had to apologize for saying that.
15/08/2011 09:56:39 AM
- 645 Views
because its not true? Mormons ARE Christians arent they?
15/08/2011 04:52:32 PM
- 675 Views
Except their founder taught, and his church teaches, that man is his own savior.
15/08/2011 05:54:28 PM
- 666 Views
well ok then, i didnt know all that
15/08/2011 06:58:22 PM
- 1136 Views
Precisely; every Mormon you ever meet will ALWAYS insist they're Christian.
16/08/2011 01:57:06 PM
- 755 Views
So nutcase liberals and one woman on Fox News and she had the decency to apologize *NM*
15/08/2011 02:04:44 PM
- 328 Views
I find that highly unlikely.
15/08/2011 02:47:35 PM
- 730 Views
I personally am considering voting for Romney , but I wouldnt underestimate Bachman and her power
15/08/2011 04:58:19 PM
- 664 Views
Also, it is very likely that Palin will not enter.....
14/08/2011 09:58:48 PM
- 676 Views
besides the fact that they both have west Texas accents what similarites?
15/08/2011 01:59:45 AM
- 642 Views
By the way, why did Kay B Hutch run against him in the primary election?
15/08/2011 03:43:52 AM
- 615 Views
Some did want to dump him, over the toll roads and mandatory HPV vaccines for school girls.
15/08/2011 03:58:38 AM
- 689 Views
you call losing by 15 points competing? *NM*
15/08/2011 04:07:08 AM
- 293 Views
It was 12.9%, which is pretty good for a Dem in a very red state during a very red year.
15/08/2011 04:26:58 AM
- 664 Views
Isn't that almost the exact same numbers Obama lost by in Texas?
15/08/2011 05:02:57 AM
- 646 Views
Roughly; are you going to pretend that 2010 was as good a year for Dems as 2008?
15/08/2011 05:34:32 AM
- 622 Views
there was a perception that he was vulnerable
15/08/2011 04:48:41 AM
- 737 Views
He was vulnerable, he only won in 06 with 39 percent of the vote *NM*
15/08/2011 01:14:43 PM
- 303 Views
I have to agree with the take that it's symptomatic of a larger problem.
14/08/2011 10:23:02 PM
- 674 Views
There's no "victory laurel" there. The Iowa straw poll is as irrelevant as lint in one's navel.
14/08/2011 11:13:36 PM
- 685 Views
Largely true; it matters to people like Bachmann who need credibility, but to few others.
15/08/2011 12:20:48 AM
- 776 Views
unnamed sources from left leaning news source? who could question that *NM*
15/08/2011 01:25:07 AM
- 392 Views
Just because you don't like the quote doesn't make the person citing it "left leaning".
15/08/2011 02:00:15 AM
- 659 Views
It was a quote from Politico which is a left leaning news blog and the sources were unnamed
15/08/2011 02:14:09 AM
- 638 Views
If you say so.
15/08/2011 03:53:08 AM
- 651 Views
so you are going to just ignore the fact that your entire argument is based on unnamed sources?
15/08/2011 05:12:01 AM
- 590 Views
I'm not surprised no Republican wants to go on the record with that.
15/08/2011 05:51:47 AM
- 570 Views
I'm kinda curious how this thread got controversial
15/08/2011 06:26:15 AM
- 616 Views
Probably because I opined my impression that most of the viable GOP field looks pretty unimpressive.
15/08/2011 09:11:45 AM
- 1840 Views
I look at politics like I look at sports and call races on what I believe will happen
15/08/2011 02:47:35 PM
- 657 Views
Normally I'd say that's the best approach, but in US politics all teams play for the same owner.
15/08/2011 04:04:43 PM
- 1083 Views
I am trying to keep it to just the facts and my opinion of the race
15/08/2011 02:49:47 PM
- 533 Views
Are we surprised by this?
15/08/2011 07:05:59 PM
- 614 Views