Link works, but I'm not sure why you think it refutes snoops assessment or mine.
Joel Send a noteboard - 06/08/2011 08:35:10 PM
I guess snoop quoting the same thing as you independently just means it is now someone's talking point... that ABC news article you've linked me is just their summary of the report with a few quotes and talks with various people and all their links I hovered over just go to other ABC news links. I'd link you the reports, its not long or particularly technical, but I suspect it's one of those fluid links that changes, just go to S&P site, the report's right there, though this link might work. As for the rest of your comments, true or not from your perspective you're merely reinforcing my point, both sides have their heels dug in and believe they are right... doesn't matter who is, personally I think the GOP is, to S&P though all that matters is neither side is budging nor is the stalemate likely to break in any fashion that significantly reduces the deficit. That's all they care about, and while it's not unrelated to the economy the deficit and our credit rating aren't the only thing that matters, so neither side has any reason to cave thinking the downgrade will do more damage then letting the other side win would.
We can examine the report at greater length if you like, but that won't change a thing:
The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year's wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.
Note that "political brinksmanship" is S&Ps term, no one elses. The debt ceiling extension was a regular and routine vote until House Republicans decided to make it a doomsday scenario; this, combined with their refusal to even consider higher taxes (which S&P references several times in their report) directly and greatly contributed to the bond rating cut. You can dispute that if you like but if you so choose you're debating Standard and Poors statement of their rationale, not mine. Let's continue, though the rest reads much the same:
Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.'s finances on a sustainable footing.
The act calls for as much as $2.4 trillion of reductions in expenditure growth over the 10 years through 2021. These cuts will be implemented in two steps: the $917 billion agreed to initially, followed by an additional $1.5 trillion that the newly formed Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction is supposed to recommend by November 2011. The act contains no
measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.
The act calls for as much as $2.4 trillion of reductions in expenditure growth over the 10 years through 2021. These cuts will be implemented in two steps: the $917 billion agreed to initially, followed by an additional $1.5 trillion that the newly formed Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction is supposed to recommend by November 2011. The act contains no
measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.
Even when S&P explicitly says it takes no position on HOW America should reduce its debt, referring to that desired reduction as "the mix of spending and revenue measures" implicitly shows they want the same thing as the US public (and Democrats SAY they do): A MIX of spending cuts and revenue increases. Simply closing tax loopholes would only nominally address revenue shortfalls, just as withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan will only nominally address spending excesses.
Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key
macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.
macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.
Short of S&P saying, "raise taxes or we'll cut your bond rating again" I don't know how much more clear they could be.
As for both sides digging in their heels, that's ridiculous. It's common knowledge Democrats want tax hikes and Republicans want spending cuts. It's also common knowledge the Democrats STARTING position in negotiations was to accept $1.5 trillion in spending cuts, but they wanted to include tax cuts to achieve a $4 trillion dollar "grand bargain" (the same $4 trillion figure S&P told us long ago was necessary to avoid a bond rating reduction). First Boehner and then Cantor walked away from that, even when Obama offered to throw in a reduction of SS CoLA that would be VERY unpopular with the Dem base and consequently hard to sell to Pelosi and Co. What we get instead is nominal spending cuts, mostly already planned defence cuts, and Obama won't have to deal with the debt ceiling again because he won't be President in 2013. "Who's right" matters a great deal, because if the spoiled deluded people who want tax breaks at any cost continue prevailing we can expect independent analysts to continue downgrading our credit. If you want to put in terms of "my side vs. yours" though, MY side isn't the one saying a credit default would be no big deal or that the President should resign over a credit rating reduction caused by dangerous Republican grandstanding and addiction to tax breaks.
We could easily get a handle on our debt if we cut spending and raise taxes, but that's the only way; debate that if you like, but you're debating it with Standard and Poors, not me.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
US Credit Rate Downgraded - Obama should resign.....
06/08/2011 04:12:48 AM
- 1331 Views
Que tonterías.
06/08/2011 04:23:49 AM
- 858 Views
Really?
06/08/2011 05:05:48 AM
- 914 Views
Leaders have to lead.....
06/08/2011 05:18:21 AM
- 735 Views
Cuts aren't up to him, though.
06/08/2011 05:37:50 AM
- 783 Views
Yeah, sure, the President has no say or control.....good grief..... *NM*
06/08/2011 06:13:49 AM
- 446 Views
S&P didn't demand cuts, they demanded fiscal responsibility.
06/08/2011 03:18:10 PM
- 1016 Views
and haters gotta hate..... *NM*
06/08/2011 05:49:25 AM
- 427 Views
I admit it, I hate what Obama is doing to our country..... *NM*
06/08/2011 06:12:39 AM
- 438 Views
you, it was the tea party republicans that caused this
06/08/2011 05:57:16 AM
- 863 Views
As ever your disinterest in facts seems to be central to your posting.
06/08/2011 11:34:20 AM
- 827 Views
Which would be less annoying if so much of Congress didn't suffer from the same delusions.
06/08/2011 03:48:04 PM
- 750 Views
Does Timmy G play sax like his brother Kenny? *NM*
06/08/2011 01:11:17 PM
- 425 Views
Fun fact - I dated in HS Kenny G's niece.....
06/08/2011 03:13:52 PM
- 729 Views
S&P specifically cited GOP refusal to raise taxes among their reasons.
06/08/2011 03:10:22 PM
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Of course one could just read the actual S&P report
06/08/2011 04:01:07 PM
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Sure.
06/08/2011 04:53:47 PM
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Right, ABC new's summary of the report is not the report
06/08/2011 07:02:46 PM
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Link works, but I'm not sure why you think it refutes snoops assessment or mine.
06/08/2011 08:35:10 PM
- 998 Views
It doesn't refute it, it just isn't this simple distillation you're offering
06/08/2011 09:23:33 PM
- 828 Views
It's more than half a sentence; I quoted several paragraphs.
06/08/2011 09:56:31 PM
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Well yes, after I gave you the report, I think I'm pretty obviously refering to before that
06/08/2011 11:02:17 PM
- 724 Views
Before that I was referring to the paragraphs quoted in the ABC report.
07/08/2011 01:21:18 AM
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not really
06/08/2011 10:15:32 PM
- 789 Views
"the mix of spending and revenue measures"
06/08/2011 10:23:06 PM
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So you read the statement that they take no posistion as they take the dem position?
07/08/2011 04:51:58 AM
- 859 Views
I read a "mix" to be a mix.
09/08/2011 12:14:35 AM
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So in other words you just ignore the actaull words and read it say what you want it to say *NM*
09/08/2011 02:07:57 PM
- 488 Views
A mix of something and nothing is impossible; one thing is one thing, not a mix.
09/08/2011 04:56:00 PM
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US politicians are too busy fighting over who gets to play the fiddle. *NM*
06/08/2011 05:53:32 PM
- 441 Views
would him resigning really help?
07/08/2011 10:24:00 AM
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not as long as he has the high functioning moron Joe Biden as VP.
08/08/2011 12:34:32 AM
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In reality, its Congress (BOTH parties) AND the President who are to blame.
08/08/2011 01:59:13 AM
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40% is not a small tax increase and a small spending cut
09/08/2011 04:20:28 AM
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Why are people making a deal about the debt ceiling increase?
09/08/2011 03:42:13 PM
- 747 Views
Because, when you get down to it, the debt ceilings very existence was always a political threat.
09/08/2011 05:02:12 PM
- 719 Views