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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM
I find it a tad ironic that you're engaging in fear-mongering about fear-mongering, though there's a touch of truth to what you say. Nevertheless, on an issue like this, the ultimate 'goal' has to be to convince people that there's nothing wrong with gay marriage, so a ballot on the matter is, IMO, the only way to really legitimize it. Right now I know a lot of people who were fence-sitters or lukewarms supporters of gay marriage who strongly resent the acts of the judiciary on this matter, and resent being told that they are ignorant or bigoted, the legislature passing something will not offend to that degree, the law would be viewed as legitimate, but a general ballot is the clearest and cleanest way to show the will of the people and gay marriage is neither complex technically, lengthy in concept, or a matter of grave urgency, so it's one of the relatively few matters the public could vote on, in my opinion the course of wisdom is to go that route, by and large citizens accept 51% of other citizens as more valid and swaying then a judge or even 51% of elected reps, if the ultimate goal is to get people to accept gay marriage as valid, 51% of their fellowing citizens saying 'yes it is' is far more convincing then any action of the government.


It's not fear-mongering, because it's based on what actually happened instead of simply conjecture, unlike the claims of anti-gay marriage campaigns.

The support of 51% of voters is not going to be any more convincing than 51% of the legislature to those who oppose it. (See, e.g., Obama's presidency.) That's not how people reason about social norms. The only way to build up gay marriage as acceptable is to force it through, so that it becomes part of the fabric of society.

Also, civil rights should always be a matter of urgency.
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New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1157 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 378 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 213 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 547 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 705 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 512 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 564 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 657 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 515 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 642 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 565 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 594 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 536 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 569 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 425 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 570 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 211 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 503 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 639 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 222 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 209 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 585 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 489 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 222 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 222 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 473 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 507 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 503 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 542 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 498 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 540 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 422 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 604 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 675 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 1048 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 684 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 947 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 514 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 527 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 577 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 578 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM 674 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 230 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 202 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 621 Views

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