He’s Just Not That Into Anyone (an article about watching porn and men's changing libidos).
everynametaken Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 10:52:10 PM
I met the woman at a Broadway show, but the night’s best piece of acting, I’d say, came from me, back at her East Village apartment, after we’d been having sex for about 25 minutes, with Neil Young wailing the song “Comes a Time” from the laptop on her bedside table. The dried-out condom had a full-bodied choke hold on me, but I’d already stopped twice to put on a fresh one, and I knew, as I kept earnestly pumping away, that one more condom wouldn’t make the necessary difference. Had I just given up, things might have played out the way they often did, with shades of confused disappointment and inadequacy on the part of the woman and mumbled apologies and awkward shame from me. But that night, ingenuity struck—unable to actually get off, I found myself flying a fresh route: I faked it.
Why would I, a healthy guy in his thirties, need to fake an orgasm? It was mystifying. I wasn’t on antidepressants, which I’d heard could decrease sensation. I got plenty of exercise. It didn’t seem to matter which woman I was with, or what kind of condom we used, or whether I’d downed one glass of whiskey or ten, or if we listened to Neil Young or Al Green, as I learned through trial and error (mostly error). Over the course of months, I picked a dozen suspects out of the lineup and gradually cleared each one. Except, perhaps, the most obvious.
“Pornography? It’s a new synaptic pathway.” This is what John Mayer said in a candid interview with Playboy. “You wake up in the morning, open a thumbnail page, and it leads to a Pandora’s box of visuals,” he continued. “There have probably been days when I saw 300 vaginas before I got out of bed.”
Porn’s allure and ubiquity isn’t exactly titillating news. The question that still remains, however, is how this tsunami of porn is affecting the libido of the American male or, more selfishly, mine. First I came across a post on Sanjay Gupta’s blog by Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor, who wrote that he noticed a distinct rise in the number of men approaching him with concerns about delayed ejaculation. Kerner went on to attribute much of the problem to a “rapid proliferation of Internet porn” which leads to “over-masturbation,” something I’m very familiar with. Then I read about a University of Kansas study that found that 25 percent of college-age men said they’d faked orgasms, which, I’ll admit, was oddly comforting to hear. But it wasn’t until I interviewed dozens of men with varying porn-watching habits (and a few very open-minded women) that some unexpected themes began to emerge. Porn is not only shaping men’s physical and emotional interest in sex on a very fundamental neurological level, but it’s also having a series of unexpected ripple effects—namely on women.
For decades, hand-wringers have warned of a porn epidemic that would tear the nation’s moral fabric asunder. But if online porn has spread a sickness, it’s one that’s less like Ebola and more like a midwinter cold. The initial symptom for a lot of guys who frequently find themselves bookmarking their favorite illicit clips appears to be a waning desire for their partners. Jonas*, a 34-year-old ad exec, told me, “I get on SpankWire or X Videos—you could carve ice sculptures with my dick. I take a girl home from the bar, though, and I’ll be up for a minute while she’s going down on me, but once I put a condom on and we start going at it, it’s like the Challenger exploded—all the flags are at half-mast.”
Then there’s Stefan, a 43-year-old composer, who has no problem getting aroused when he has sex with his wife. “In order to come, though, I’ve got to resort to playing scenes in my head that I’ve seen while viewing porn. Something is lost there. I’m no longer with my wife; I’m inside my own head.”
As John Mayer told Playboy, “How could you be constantly synthesizing an orgasm based on dozens of shots? You’re looking for the one photo out of 100 you swear is going to be the one you finish to, and you still don’t finish … How does that not affect the psychology of having a relationship with somebody? It’s got to.” Most of the men I interviewed admitted having a similar habit of jumping quickly from porn clip to porn clip (which explains the rise and popularity of “cumshot” montages and other rapidly edited compilations). Kerner went so far as to coin the term “sexual attention deficit disorder.” For a lot of guys, switching gears from porn’s fireworks and whiz-bangs to the comparatively mundane calm of ordinary sex is like leaving halfway through an Imax 3-D movie to check out a flipbook.
“I used to race home to have sex with my wife,” says Perry, a 41-year-old lawyer. “Now I leave work a half-hour early so I can get home before she does and masturbate to porn.” Throughout the course of our conversation, Perry insists that he’s still attracted to his wife of twelve years. Still, he says, she can’t quite measure up to the porn stars he views online. “Not to be mean, but they’re younger, hotter, and wilder in the sack than my wife,” he says. “Me and her, we still ‘do it’ and everything, but instead of every day, it’s maybe once a week. It’s like I’ve got this ‘other woman’ … and the ‘other woman’ is porn.”
Ron, 27, an architecture student, met his girlfriend when they were both undergrads. She goes to school in another city, and Ron says that for the past couple of years, he’s had weekly “dates” with his favorite porn stars, which he looks forward to all day and even showers and shaves for, as though preparing for a live-action rendezvous. “Mondays are for Gia Jordan,” he says. “Tuesdays for Sasha Grey.” Wednesdays he has a reprieve—a Portuguese night class. “I always look forward to Thursdays the most—Kasey Kox,” he says. “Then, on the weekends, I hang out with my girlfriend.” Occasionally, when he returns to his apartment on Sundays, Ron explains, he roams the web looking for candidates to spend time with on Wednesday nights in case he has leftover energy after his language class. “I don’t like to believe that porn is replacing anything I have with my girlfriend,” he says, “but I’ve always loved sex, and I’ve always had a lot of it, so I really had to stop and think about it when she asked me recently why she always has to be the one to initiate things. And she was right; I guess I’ve been fading from her. It’s like all that time with these porn stars was subduing any physical desire for my girlfriend. And, in some weird way, my emotional need for her, too.”
Is it possible that porn is causing men to detach from their partners in more profound ways? Though porn research is the subject of much debate and barb-flinging (with religious groups seizing on any study to prove that porn and masturbation are wrong), scientists speculate that a dopamine-oxytocin combo is released in the brain during orgasm, acting as a “biochemical love potion,” as behavioral therapist Andrea Kuszewski calls it. It’s the reason after having sex with someone, you’re probably more inclined to form an emotional attachment. But you don’t have to actually have sex in order to get those neurotransmitters firing. When you watch porn, “you’re bonding with it,” Kuszewski says. “And those chemicals make you want to keep coming back to have that feeling.” Which allows men not only to get off on porn but to potentially develop a neurological attachment to it. They can, in essence, date porn.
And as tripod-in-the-corner porn evolves into a high-def wonderland, our grasp on whether we’re watching sex or actually having sex may, with the help of oxytocin, loosen. Many of the men I interviewed spoke of the charge they get from watching their favorite porn actresses. But they also had a tendency to describe the act of watching porn as though it were a real sex act they had participated in—making their emotional investment in porn all the more concrete. “I love when Kasey [Kox] is fully clothed and smiling at me from her bed, or I’m doing her from behind,” says Ron, the architecture student. “I get one glimpse of Kasey and I’m so turned on. I get dizzy.”
All of which raises an interesting question: How does having sometimes flaccid, sometimes faked, oftentimes dizzied sex impact the partners on the receiving end? Sadie, 29, a real-estate agent in Boston, quotes performance artist Nicole Blackman to make her point: “ ‘There is no glory in trying to make love to men who only know how to fuck—man after man after man after man raised on porn.’ There have been times in the past,” Sadie continues, “when I would be with someone and thinking, Jesus fucking Christ, what the fuck kind of stupid porn have you been watching? Did you just smack my kitty? Dumbass!”
“There’s a failure to distinguish between porn reality and reality reality,” says Monika, 27. “One guy kept shouting at me, ‘Ride the cock, ride the cock!’ I was laughing so hard we had to stop.”
As a result of the blending of reality and fantasy, some women have chosen to willingly play along by a new set of rules in order to keep their men interested: They’re intentionally impersonating porn stars. Sadie, the real-estate agent, says, “A lot of guys have come to expect P.S.E. [the “Porn-Star Experience”] as a common thing—snatches waxed bald, access to every hole—and plenty of women are more than happy to provide. A few might enjoy it, but for most it’s harrowing. I think there’s a fear that if they can’t make it happen, their boyfriend will retreat online.”
Monty, 31, an actor from Queens, who between shooting scenes spends about an hour a day masturbating to online porn, says he’s noticed the shift. “I was with a girl who seemed to be in an arms race with porn,” he says. “She had this imaginary Soviet Union she kept trying to out-fuck.”
“Women are turning up the dial,” says Evan, also 31. “I’m a pleaser. I get off on a woman’s arousal. But I’ve noticed that women are getting a lot more vocal now. Either I’m doing something I’m not aware of, or women are beginning to mimic what happens in porn. Honestly, it’s kind of weird. I’m not sure if I like it.”
Tony, 48, a web designer in St. Paul, who separated from his wife a few years ago after twenty years of marriage, echoes the thought. “I’ve always thought it’s really hot when women in porn movies say dirty stuff,” he says. “Usually, they’re just literally narrating the shit that’s happening, giving the play-by-play: ‘You’re fucking me! Your dick’s in my ass! I’m sucking your cock right now!’ For whatever reason, that’s what does it for me. But recently a woman I was with started saying all that stuff, and it just kind of spooked me. She seemed slightly nuts.”
And so a conundrum emerges. Men, oversaturated by porn, secretly hunger for the variety that porn offers. Women, noticing a decline in their partners’ libidos, try to reenact the kinds of scenes that men watch on their computer screens. Men, as a result, get really freaked out. They don’t want their real women and their fantasy women to inhabit the same body. Or, as Ron analogizes: “Remember Ghostbusters? How in love Bill Murray was with Dana, the Sigourney Weaver character? He feels lucky to even get her to agree to a date with him, but then when he shows up at her door, she’s possessed by demons, floating four feet above her bed, begging him to fuck her brains out. And he’s completely rattled by it and can’t get out of there fast enough. Well, that’s what it’s like when your girlfriend suddenly starts acting like a porn queen. You’re like, ‘Baby, where’d you go? I just want my girlfriend back.’ ”
Like any thorough researcher, I decided to investigate a theory. I had heard about something called the National Day of Unplugging, sponsored by the New York–based Jewish group Reboot, which encourages people to take a one-day vacation from their tech. But I chose to unplug in my own way: by refusing to visit the usual series of tawdry websites I frequent before bedtime. Now, I’m certainly not trying to indict porn, or to conclude that it has no place in men’s lives, whether they are alone or in company. And I’ll concede that some couples still find it to be something of a turn-on. But realigning one’s relationship to it might just improve one’s actual relationships—especially if you’re often finding yourself in the bedroom, staring into the eyes of a very confused partner. So I did some realigning.
I went without porn for a day. Then I tried it for two. Then three. On the fourth day, I had the fortune of having sex with a woman. And nothing was faked, although I can only speak for myself.
OK, except for the guy "Ron" being a total creep the article is pretty interesting. I have seen this effect, heck I've even left an encounter or two thinking to myself, "This wasn't really that good, not what I expected." and yes, in both experiences, I faked it to just kind of wrap things up. I think there is a case to be made that the influx of massive amounts of pornographic exposure probably is not a good thing overall for the libido of men, or women for that matter. Maybe thinking about it every man would be well advised to turn the monitor off once and awhile and abstain from the ass and titties. .
Why would I, a healthy guy in his thirties, need to fake an orgasm? It was mystifying. I wasn’t on antidepressants, which I’d heard could decrease sensation. I got plenty of exercise. It didn’t seem to matter which woman I was with, or what kind of condom we used, or whether I’d downed one glass of whiskey or ten, or if we listened to Neil Young or Al Green, as I learned through trial and error (mostly error). Over the course of months, I picked a dozen suspects out of the lineup and gradually cleared each one. Except, perhaps, the most obvious.
“Pornography? It’s a new synaptic pathway.” This is what John Mayer said in a candid interview with Playboy. “You wake up in the morning, open a thumbnail page, and it leads to a Pandora’s box of visuals,” he continued. “There have probably been days when I saw 300 vaginas before I got out of bed.”
Porn’s allure and ubiquity isn’t exactly titillating news. The question that still remains, however, is how this tsunami of porn is affecting the libido of the American male or, more selfishly, mine. First I came across a post on Sanjay Gupta’s blog by Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor, who wrote that he noticed a distinct rise in the number of men approaching him with concerns about delayed ejaculation. Kerner went on to attribute much of the problem to a “rapid proliferation of Internet porn” which leads to “over-masturbation,” something I’m very familiar with. Then I read about a University of Kansas study that found that 25 percent of college-age men said they’d faked orgasms, which, I’ll admit, was oddly comforting to hear. But it wasn’t until I interviewed dozens of men with varying porn-watching habits (and a few very open-minded women) that some unexpected themes began to emerge. Porn is not only shaping men’s physical and emotional interest in sex on a very fundamental neurological level, but it’s also having a series of unexpected ripple effects—namely on women.
For decades, hand-wringers have warned of a porn epidemic that would tear the nation’s moral fabric asunder. But if online porn has spread a sickness, it’s one that’s less like Ebola and more like a midwinter cold. The initial symptom for a lot of guys who frequently find themselves bookmarking their favorite illicit clips appears to be a waning desire for their partners. Jonas*, a 34-year-old ad exec, told me, “I get on SpankWire or X Videos—you could carve ice sculptures with my dick. I take a girl home from the bar, though, and I’ll be up for a minute while she’s going down on me, but once I put a condom on and we start going at it, it’s like the Challenger exploded—all the flags are at half-mast.”
Then there’s Stefan, a 43-year-old composer, who has no problem getting aroused when he has sex with his wife. “In order to come, though, I’ve got to resort to playing scenes in my head that I’ve seen while viewing porn. Something is lost there. I’m no longer with my wife; I’m inside my own head.”
As John Mayer told Playboy, “How could you be constantly synthesizing an orgasm based on dozens of shots? You’re looking for the one photo out of 100 you swear is going to be the one you finish to, and you still don’t finish … How does that not affect the psychology of having a relationship with somebody? It’s got to.” Most of the men I interviewed admitted having a similar habit of jumping quickly from porn clip to porn clip (which explains the rise and popularity of “cumshot” montages and other rapidly edited compilations). Kerner went so far as to coin the term “sexual attention deficit disorder.” For a lot of guys, switching gears from porn’s fireworks and whiz-bangs to the comparatively mundane calm of ordinary sex is like leaving halfway through an Imax 3-D movie to check out a flipbook.
“I used to race home to have sex with my wife,” says Perry, a 41-year-old lawyer. “Now I leave work a half-hour early so I can get home before she does and masturbate to porn.” Throughout the course of our conversation, Perry insists that he’s still attracted to his wife of twelve years. Still, he says, she can’t quite measure up to the porn stars he views online. “Not to be mean, but they’re younger, hotter, and wilder in the sack than my wife,” he says. “Me and her, we still ‘do it’ and everything, but instead of every day, it’s maybe once a week. It’s like I’ve got this ‘other woman’ … and the ‘other woman’ is porn.”
Ron, 27, an architecture student, met his girlfriend when they were both undergrads. She goes to school in another city, and Ron says that for the past couple of years, he’s had weekly “dates” with his favorite porn stars, which he looks forward to all day and even showers and shaves for, as though preparing for a live-action rendezvous. “Mondays are for Gia Jordan,” he says. “Tuesdays for Sasha Grey.” Wednesdays he has a reprieve—a Portuguese night class. “I always look forward to Thursdays the most—Kasey Kox,” he says. “Then, on the weekends, I hang out with my girlfriend.” Occasionally, when he returns to his apartment on Sundays, Ron explains, he roams the web looking for candidates to spend time with on Wednesday nights in case he has leftover energy after his language class. “I don’t like to believe that porn is replacing anything I have with my girlfriend,” he says, “but I’ve always loved sex, and I’ve always had a lot of it, so I really had to stop and think about it when she asked me recently why she always has to be the one to initiate things. And she was right; I guess I’ve been fading from her. It’s like all that time with these porn stars was subduing any physical desire for my girlfriend. And, in some weird way, my emotional need for her, too.”
Is it possible that porn is causing men to detach from their partners in more profound ways? Though porn research is the subject of much debate and barb-flinging (with religious groups seizing on any study to prove that porn and masturbation are wrong), scientists speculate that a dopamine-oxytocin combo is released in the brain during orgasm, acting as a “biochemical love potion,” as behavioral therapist Andrea Kuszewski calls it. It’s the reason after having sex with someone, you’re probably more inclined to form an emotional attachment. But you don’t have to actually have sex in order to get those neurotransmitters firing. When you watch porn, “you’re bonding with it,” Kuszewski says. “And those chemicals make you want to keep coming back to have that feeling.” Which allows men not only to get off on porn but to potentially develop a neurological attachment to it. They can, in essence, date porn.
And as tripod-in-the-corner porn evolves into a high-def wonderland, our grasp on whether we’re watching sex or actually having sex may, with the help of oxytocin, loosen. Many of the men I interviewed spoke of the charge they get from watching their favorite porn actresses. But they also had a tendency to describe the act of watching porn as though it were a real sex act they had participated in—making their emotional investment in porn all the more concrete. “I love when Kasey [Kox] is fully clothed and smiling at me from her bed, or I’m doing her from behind,” says Ron, the architecture student. “I get one glimpse of Kasey and I’m so turned on. I get dizzy.”
All of which raises an interesting question: How does having sometimes flaccid, sometimes faked, oftentimes dizzied sex impact the partners on the receiving end? Sadie, 29, a real-estate agent in Boston, quotes performance artist Nicole Blackman to make her point: “ ‘There is no glory in trying to make love to men who only know how to fuck—man after man after man after man raised on porn.’ There have been times in the past,” Sadie continues, “when I would be with someone and thinking, Jesus fucking Christ, what the fuck kind of stupid porn have you been watching? Did you just smack my kitty? Dumbass!”
“There’s a failure to distinguish between porn reality and reality reality,” says Monika, 27. “One guy kept shouting at me, ‘Ride the cock, ride the cock!’ I was laughing so hard we had to stop.”
As a result of the blending of reality and fantasy, some women have chosen to willingly play along by a new set of rules in order to keep their men interested: They’re intentionally impersonating porn stars. Sadie, the real-estate agent, says, “A lot of guys have come to expect P.S.E. [the “Porn-Star Experience”] as a common thing—snatches waxed bald, access to every hole—and plenty of women are more than happy to provide. A few might enjoy it, but for most it’s harrowing. I think there’s a fear that if they can’t make it happen, their boyfriend will retreat online.”
Monty, 31, an actor from Queens, who between shooting scenes spends about an hour a day masturbating to online porn, says he’s noticed the shift. “I was with a girl who seemed to be in an arms race with porn,” he says. “She had this imaginary Soviet Union she kept trying to out-fuck.”
“Women are turning up the dial,” says Evan, also 31. “I’m a pleaser. I get off on a woman’s arousal. But I’ve noticed that women are getting a lot more vocal now. Either I’m doing something I’m not aware of, or women are beginning to mimic what happens in porn. Honestly, it’s kind of weird. I’m not sure if I like it.”
Tony, 48, a web designer in St. Paul, who separated from his wife a few years ago after twenty years of marriage, echoes the thought. “I’ve always thought it’s really hot when women in porn movies say dirty stuff,” he says. “Usually, they’re just literally narrating the shit that’s happening, giving the play-by-play: ‘You’re fucking me! Your dick’s in my ass! I’m sucking your cock right now!’ For whatever reason, that’s what does it for me. But recently a woman I was with started saying all that stuff, and it just kind of spooked me. She seemed slightly nuts.”
And so a conundrum emerges. Men, oversaturated by porn, secretly hunger for the variety that porn offers. Women, noticing a decline in their partners’ libidos, try to reenact the kinds of scenes that men watch on their computer screens. Men, as a result, get really freaked out. They don’t want their real women and their fantasy women to inhabit the same body. Or, as Ron analogizes: “Remember Ghostbusters? How in love Bill Murray was with Dana, the Sigourney Weaver character? He feels lucky to even get her to agree to a date with him, but then when he shows up at her door, she’s possessed by demons, floating four feet above her bed, begging him to fuck her brains out. And he’s completely rattled by it and can’t get out of there fast enough. Well, that’s what it’s like when your girlfriend suddenly starts acting like a porn queen. You’re like, ‘Baby, where’d you go? I just want my girlfriend back.’ ”
Like any thorough researcher, I decided to investigate a theory. I had heard about something called the National Day of Unplugging, sponsored by the New York–based Jewish group Reboot, which encourages people to take a one-day vacation from their tech. But I chose to unplug in my own way: by refusing to visit the usual series of tawdry websites I frequent before bedtime. Now, I’m certainly not trying to indict porn, or to conclude that it has no place in men’s lives, whether they are alone or in company. And I’ll concede that some couples still find it to be something of a turn-on. But realigning one’s relationship to it might just improve one’s actual relationships—especially if you’re often finding yourself in the bedroom, staring into the eyes of a very confused partner. So I did some realigning.
I went without porn for a day. Then I tried it for two. Then three. On the fourth day, I had the fortune of having sex with a woman. And nothing was faked, although I can only speak for myself.
OK, except for the guy "Ron" being a total creep the article is pretty interesting. I have seen this effect, heck I've even left an encounter or two thinking to myself, "This wasn't really that good, not what I expected." and yes, in both experiences, I faked it to just kind of wrap things up. I think there is a case to be made that the influx of massive amounts of pornographic exposure probably is not a good thing overall for the libido of men, or women for that matter. Maybe thinking about it every man would be well advised to turn the monitor off once and awhile and abstain from the ass and titties. .
But wine was the great assassin of both tradition and propriety...
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
He’s Just Not That Into Anyone (an article about watching porn and men's changing libidos).
11/06/2011 10:52:10 PM
- 3157 Views
I disagree with the whole last third or fourth of the article.
12/06/2011 02:01:40 AM
- 940 Views
Re: I disagree with the whole last third or fourth of the article.
12/06/2011 08:49:39 PM
- 1220 Views
A lot of guys who get hooked on porn don't know how to approach women
12/06/2011 10:55:17 PM
- 1158 Views
Funny
13/06/2011 01:22:28 AM
- 1131 Views
You obviously never had a fulfilling long term sexual relationship with a woman.
13/06/2011 10:43:23 AM
- 900 Views
Oh My
13/06/2011 03:29:34 PM
- 948 Views
*giggle*
13/06/2011 03:46:28 PM
- 971 Views
Oh, I tend to be loving and appreciative
13/06/2011 05:08:56 PM
- 894 Views
That isnt fair, Helene *NM*
13/06/2011 06:22:25 PM
- 473 Views
What isn't fair?
13/06/2011 08:07:08 PM
- 1100 Views
I'm not looking for someone to fix, but the not fair bit I was refering to was little irony dig *NM*
13/06/2011 10:10:11 PM
- 495 Views
You don't need to be broken to enjoy being appreciated
13/06/2011 10:17:01 PM
- 900 Views
No, Helene, You repeatedly attempt to sidetrack discussion with attacks against my person
13/06/2011 10:20:01 PM
- 1033 Views
But it makes me feel good
13/06/2011 10:45:07 PM
- 908 Views
I'm not a hedonist
13/06/2011 10:57:25 PM
- 1065 Views
If you really wanted to debate the actual issue, you would have. *NM*
13/06/2011 11:51:53 PM
- 369 Views
I don't believe that at all.
13/06/2011 04:48:26 AM
- 1049 Views
Ok, perhaps I can't talk from experience... as that group of men has self selected out of the game
13/06/2011 10:47:59 AM
- 973 Views
Showing appreciation is a losing strategy.
13/06/2011 04:55:09 AM
- 1009 Views
So you don't know how to open a woman up sexually
13/06/2011 10:51:17 AM
- 1016 Views
Oh how clever of you!
13/06/2011 09:59:01 PM
- 1103 Views
Not to gang up on you or anything, but...
13/06/2011 10:15:57 PM
- 1029 Views
If you'ld actually read his post Tom gave reasons beyond lack of sexual adventuressness *NM*
13/06/2011 10:17:11 PM
- 502 Views
Of which the "letting you do your own thing" was the only one I can take seriously.
13/06/2011 10:30:10 PM
- 892 Views
So rather than adress your disagreement on the facts you just pretended he didn't say them? *NM*
13/06/2011 10:34:02 PM
- 470 Views
I'm sure that there are Eastern European women who will fulfill the "traditionally female role"?
13/06/2011 10:43:43 PM
- 986 Views
It's that the prudishness is indicative of a more general sense of entitlement and manipulativeness.
13/06/2011 11:02:20 PM
- 1107 Views
Yes. And "passive-aggressive behavior" is another one I'd add. *NM*
13/06/2011 11:18:40 PM
- 379 Views
So far in this debate, you've only displayed your feelings of entitlement
14/06/2011 12:05:16 AM
- 910 Views
I give to the relationship. I give a shitload of money.
14/06/2011 12:13:47 AM
- 920 Views
Bringing in money does not a relationship make. The rest, however, sounds a lot better
14/06/2011 12:38:45 AM
- 982 Views
So Let me understand what you are saying...
14/06/2011 02:40:50 AM
- 1024 Views
I'm not sure, based on that response, you're capable of understanding anything at all.
14/06/2011 03:17:37 AM
- 1039 Views
I can see why you might have trouble finding an American woman who would agree with that
14/06/2011 02:00:49 PM
- 1024 Views
Guys have their own problems, but the conversation is revolving around women at the moment. *NM* *NM*
14/06/2011 01:23:20 AM
- 488 Views
The conversation did start being about MEN's problems.
14/06/2011 03:36:36 AM
- 976 Views
Be good, Ana.
14/06/2011 03:40:12 AM
- 758 Views
You may be mistaken.
14/06/2011 03:54:28 AM
- 987 Views
Thats unfortuanate, Ana
14/06/2011 03:58:50 AM
- 884 Views
The only reason the conversation is revolving around women is because Tom laid all the blame at
14/06/2011 07:35:34 AM
- 1072 Views
Wow.. all the misogynists came out to play
13/06/2011 11:57:05 PM
- 1080 Views
I don't see a lot of misogyny.
14/06/2011 12:59:06 AM
- 846 Views
You are blind to misogyny because you lack awareness in that area
14/06/2011 07:38:48 AM
- 910 Views
Why misogynist? Why not Anti-American?
14/06/2011 01:32:17 AM
- 1402 Views
So, which women are better than American women?
14/06/2011 03:38:38 AM
- 1050 Views
Re: Haha
14/06/2011 04:18:46 AM
- 949 Views
You seem very intent on coming off as the smartest guy in the room.
14/06/2011 04:40:26 AM
- 1047 Views
I think that's an unfair characterization of the RP board
14/06/2011 04:58:29 AM
- 932 Views
Who are you, again?
14/06/2011 05:07:04 AM
- 783 Views
Tsk. I need to be more memorable.
14/06/2011 05:16:33 AM
- 1116 Views
Er, see my post withe country names in it. I hate this messageboard layout. *NM* *NM*
14/06/2011 04:50:31 AM
- 459 Views
Spain, Norway, Japan?
14/06/2011 04:38:43 AM
- 1043 Views
Norway is the only one that passes.
14/06/2011 01:14:54 PM
- 888 Views
Why did I pick that one? Because you completely ignore men's part in a culture that sexually
14/06/2011 07:54:39 AM
- 1044 Views
Helene, you're also not an American woman.
14/06/2011 01:03:23 PM
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It's the people who make sweeping generalisations about American women who need to defend themselves
14/06/2011 01:18:43 PM
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I didn't ignore it at all. I just bracketed it. It's quite possible, you know.
14/06/2011 08:49:03 PM
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I don't exactly expect to influence your opinion, just to voice my own.
13/06/2011 10:40:39 PM
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The last part summed it up nicely. That was all I thought you meant anyway.
14/06/2011 03:17:45 AM
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Oh, but I can do any and all of these things!
14/06/2011 12:06:41 AM
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hey! I really like your poem "name" - syllables knowing other lovers - excellent.
15/06/2011 01:49:06 AM
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I agree.
13/06/2011 01:23:51 PM
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Inside the bedroom? Sure. I could agree. But you're not American anyway.
13/06/2011 08:52:42 PM
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You're basically just saying that American attitudes toward sex results in repressed women
13/06/2011 09:03:47 PM
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Theoretically they can be "unrepressed". But why waste the time and effort?
13/06/2011 10:06:52 PM
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How can you tell it's because she cares, instead of because that's what's traditionally expected
13/06/2011 10:48:12 PM
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It's funny
13/06/2011 02:51:03 PM
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Well of course you can't see the faults of American women. You're American.
13/06/2011 08:51:35 PM
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I'm sure that American women, along with all other women on earth
13/06/2011 09:00:33 PM
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It's not my job to make a girl comfortable about her sexuality.
13/06/2011 10:03:27 PM
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If the sex is all there is, then yes, makes sense.
13/06/2011 10:18:15 PM
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Who willingly goes into a relationship knowing the sex will be bad?
14/06/2011 03:52:43 AM
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And you don't think that the men in these relationships contributed to the current situation at all?
14/06/2011 07:59:15 AM
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In this particular aspect, absolutely not.
14/06/2011 02:19:33 PM
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Of course I consider that you might be right
14/06/2011 03:59:50 PM
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^ And this response immediately above is my last. This is eating into a real workday now. ^
14/06/2011 05:53:43 PM
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Loads of people, if that's compensated by other things?
14/06/2011 08:38:45 PM
- 1113 Views
I would rather be in a good marriage with bad sex than the other way around *NM*
14/06/2011 10:33:27 PM
- 534 Views
Of course it is your job as a sex partner to make your partner feel comfortable about being with you
13/06/2011 10:50:52 PM
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Like fucking Hell it is.
14/06/2011 12:18:02 AM
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You're totally cracking me up in here.
14/06/2011 12:30:39 AM
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Have you ever been accused of date rape?
14/06/2011 12:46:30 AM
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No. And that's an absurd question.
14/06/2011 01:08:13 AM
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No, the point you were arguing was absurd. I just pointed out what you were arguing.
14/06/2011 08:03:13 AM
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Let's cut the sophistry
14/06/2011 02:24:52 PM
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If that's what you wanted to say, it would have helped for you to be more explicit.
14/06/2011 04:10:43 PM
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"Why do these women use sex as a manipulative tool?"
14/06/2011 05:06:33 PM
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It seems to me there is a very simple answer to that question.
14/06/2011 05:26:09 PM
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I don't think it works at all.
14/06/2011 05:48:48 PM
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Your anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise.
14/06/2011 06:31:28 PM
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I agree with Sareitha. Women do that because it (apears to) works for them, in the short term
14/06/2011 08:28:11 PM
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I can't see that I would put up with that either
14/06/2011 10:32:09 PM
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I haven't tried it either. Seems to me like that is closely related to The Silent Treatment.
15/06/2011 03:43:45 AM
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A fairly self-aware American. With many female friends, even
13/06/2011 11:59:34 PM
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Yeah I don't buy that "most American girls are prudes" concept
14/06/2011 04:10:37 PM
- 647 Views
I think most of it depends on the "type" of girl a guy goes for.
14/06/2011 11:09:34 PM
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some times there is a fine line between kinky and perverted sometimes there isn't
14/06/2011 11:32:17 PM
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A moment
14/06/2011 05:01:05 PM
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Camilla, I'm trying to keep this at arm's length a bit.
14/06/2011 05:42:18 PM
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But you started it.
14/06/2011 08:43:47 PM
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I did start it, yes.
16/06/2011 03:32:54 PM
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You should have quit before this.
16/06/2011 03:46:01 PM
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No, I shouldn't have.
16/06/2011 04:03:21 PM
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Re: I did start it, yes.
16/06/2011 03:46:06 PM
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Yes, we do!
16/06/2011 04:04:02 PM
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Take is up the ass or you are a prude?
16/06/2011 04:09:54 PM
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Maybe Tom will make allowances for preferences instead of an unwillingness because it's "wrong"? *NM*
16/06/2011 04:22:45 PM
- 447 Views
You didn't read the list very well.
16/06/2011 07:08:19 PM
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Re: The idea that If it hurts it's not being done right - Not neccessarily.
17/06/2011 01:13:18 AM
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If I weren't such a prude (3), I would post this list to facebook.
16/06/2011 05:08:05 PM
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You mixed up prudishness and sexual compatibility with you
16/06/2011 05:21:31 PM
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No I didn't.
16/06/2011 07:14:27 PM
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Calling my response a knee jerk reaction is just silly, and in itself, a knee jerk response.
16/06/2011 07:38:28 PM
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Okay. I'm going to just stop replying.
16/06/2011 08:28:02 PM
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Your world view is just too self referential to be
16/06/2011 08:36:39 PM
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As is yours. *NM*
16/06/2011 08:44:10 PM
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Question
16/06/2011 07:42:37 PM
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Ha Ha, who cares about the guy? It is only female sexuality that is on trial.
16/06/2011 08:06:33 PM
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That is an incorrect assumption.
16/06/2011 08:30:08 PM
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Awww you didn't take my bait!
16/06/2011 08:44:16 PM
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There's very little I haven't been willing to do
16/06/2011 08:52:31 PM
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Hehehe, But *I* recall it!
16/06/2011 09:22:40 PM
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Wait, I think I know what you're talking about.
16/06/2011 09:27:20 PM
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Damn, I was going to guess "in a coffin".
16/06/2011 09:31:36 PM
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She's significantly younger than O'Donnell, and was better looking.
16/06/2011 09:33:51 PM
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I'm reminded of an ex of mine
16/06/2011 08:32:34 PM
- 750 Views
That's really awful.
16/06/2011 09:16:33 PM
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When you're with a person who appreciates you, it's not like that at all
16/06/2011 09:29:32 PM
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THIS!! LISTEN!! the woman is * lightbulb* speaking from a woman's perspective.
14/06/2011 02:52:26 AM
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Wondering why we're still single, are we? Try a minimum of politeness first.
14/06/2011 03:21:15 AM
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Where did I insinuate you can't please women? *NM*
14/06/2011 08:05:14 AM
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I refer you to "So you don't know how to open a woman up sexually" *NM*
14/06/2011 02:09:40 PM
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That's not about pleasing, that's about making someone feel confident and safe
14/06/2011 04:13:24 PM
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What B/c i sank you YOUR level? Piss Off. AS if I give 2 shits what you think about me.
16/06/2011 02:19:04 AM
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Becca, can you pinpoint the moment you became a bitter worndown shell of a woman? *NM*
16/06/2011 03:21:21 AM
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Your journal entry is revealing. You sound bitter and hurt. I hope you find the healing you need.
15/06/2011 01:40:23 AM
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You know what? not called for. *NM*
15/06/2011 02:05:14 PM
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Re: It's funny
14/06/2011 03:50:13 AM
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On a completely unrelated note
14/06/2011 11:03:58 PM
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TMJ is right.
15/06/2011 02:11:57 PM
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Re: TMJ is right.
16/06/2011 12:22:10 AM
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Yes.
16/06/2011 03:41:05 PM
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Excuse me while I go hit something. A journalism major perhaps. *NM*
12/06/2011 09:09:26 PM
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Stunning rebuttal!!! *NM*
12/06/2011 10:07:39 PM
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Theres nothing there I really need to refute....
13/06/2011 01:20:43 AM
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Well, thanks for contributing nothing to the discussion. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:41:56 AM
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Is there a reason you feel the need to jump up my ass? *NM*
13/06/2011 05:16:53 AM
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Your winning personality?
13/06/2011 03:45:09 PM
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of course looking at tons of porn all the time is going to affect men
13/06/2011 11:15:02 PM
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You make a lot of sense, thanks for posting and adding your perspective. *NM*
14/06/2011 12:11:03 AM
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Re: It's a sexy topic, but all these generalizations are becoming wet blankets.
14/06/2011 02:13:31 AM
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I think this and the replies by Post Secret and random thoughts all kind of get at my ideas here.
14/06/2011 02:30:52 PM
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There is way too much crap in this thread, but I give this reply my seal of approval. *NM*
14/06/2011 05:02:04 PM
- 476 Views
I think you are spot on with the seal theory.
14/06/2011 05:16:59 PM
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Dirty motherfuckers! We need to lift all bans on whaling immediately to stem this momentum! *NM*
15/06/2011 01:56:30 AM
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[something less snarky]
14/06/2011 10:17:18 PM
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Re: How come your 1st edit is not at all what was originally posted?
15/06/2011 03:06:02 AM
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Funny how so many fault lines rupture in the comments to posts like this
14/06/2011 04:23:23 AM
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so the problem is southern women are just not good enough for you?
14/06/2011 01:51:30 PM
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No, more like not similar enough
14/06/2011 04:13:52 PM
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As someone who has never lived under the same roof more than five consecutive years
14/06/2011 06:06:10 PM
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Job. Always a job matter.
14/06/2011 11:22:33 PM
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Try south Texas, you may not notice you are not in South America
15/06/2011 02:44:21 AM
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Ha! I used to live in the metro Miami area, so I know what you mean
15/06/2011 03:20:41 AM
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sweet jesus you are crazy
15/06/2011 04:38:28 AM
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Maybe, but it certainly drains me of being involved much elsewhere
15/06/2011 05:29:21 AM
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Why all this vitriol?
14/06/2011 05:19:47 AM
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It started there here:
14/06/2011 01:06:32 PM
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Tom made an untenable comment
14/06/2011 01:21:06 PM
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Interestingly, the article talked about men being prudish in their real lives.
14/06/2011 03:27:00 PM
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I figure this may be true, but I can't speak from a lot of experience.
14/06/2011 04:23:08 PM
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I was writing a lengthy reply to disagree, but then I ended up rather close to where you stand.
14/06/2011 09:17:55 PM
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We haven't had one of these in a while!
14/06/2011 06:36:18 AM
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Yes, it takes a good flame war to get the engines firing on all cylinders.
14/06/2011 02:00:20 PM
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This post got more abused than a nasty Japanese bukkake! Lol. *NM*
15/06/2011 10:07:04 AM
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I started to read this but got bored and looked at porn.
14/06/2011 03:15:28 PM
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I think I've read pretty much all of it. I think it's better than porn. Well, bad porn.
14/06/2011 11:01:20 PM
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You know what Tom, it occurs to me that this is very American thinking.
15/06/2011 03:07:00 AM
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Actually, my Russian guy friends tend to be more vehement than I am on this point.
15/06/2011 05:12:51 AM
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Huh, could it be because most Russians are atheist?
15/06/2011 05:36:47 AM
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That could be a major part of it
16/06/2011 09:06:21 PM
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Well, there's no question that a prior consultation with me could strengthen any argument. *NM*
16/06/2011 10:36:12 PM
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