Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
Darth_Katie Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
They are in the Catholic tradition, anyway, which is the only one I have enough knowledge about to talk about.
Of course you have to be in the right frame of mind. If a hobo wanders into a church off the street and takes a bath in the baptismal font, he is not anymore blessed than if he had gone to the homeless shelter and took a shower. In that sense its not "magic water." But it does have power in the sense that it has be specially designated as set aside for use in religious ceremonies as a reminder of baptism and the cleansing power of God. As such, holy water is a potent prayer aid and "prepare[s] us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. ... Sacramentals are sacred signs instituted by the Church. They prepare men to receive the fruit of the sacraments and sanctify different circumstances of life."* The fruit of the Sacraments is Grace, and the the Grace of God is really what drives out demons or heals the sick or what have you.
If you really care, check out the section about sacramentals in the Catechism. Catholicism is all about consistent internal logic. That's what theology is for. I mean, this is the religion with canon lawyers, for goodness sake.
* The quote is from the link, btw.
Honestly, I don't see why you're picking holy water out to have a problem with. In the grand scheme of religion, its a small thing ...
The issue I had with holy water is that, despite whatever justifications people come up with, it is basically treated as "magic water." If you touch it, you are blessed. If you use it in your baptism, that's better than regular water. It can be used to ward off attacks from demons (I'm not being facetious, the idea that holy water can ward off evil is definitely a part of the perception of holy water, even if it's not one that comes up often during a sermon).
Of course you have to be in the right frame of mind. If a hobo wanders into a church off the street and takes a bath in the baptismal font, he is not anymore blessed than if he had gone to the homeless shelter and took a shower. In that sense its not "magic water." But it does have power in the sense that it has be specially designated as set aside for use in religious ceremonies as a reminder of baptism and the cleansing power of God. As such, holy water is a potent prayer aid and "prepare[s] us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. ... Sacramentals are sacred signs instituted by the Church. They prepare men to receive the fruit of the sacraments and sanctify different circumstances of life."* The fruit of the Sacraments is Grace, and the the Grace of God is really what drives out demons or heals the sick or what have you.
If you really care, check out the section about sacramentals in the Catechism. Catholicism is all about consistent internal logic. That's what theology is for. I mean, this is the religion with canon lawyers, for goodness sake.
* The quote is from the link, btw.
Honestly, I don't see why you're picking holy water out to have a problem with. In the grand scheme of religion, its a small thing ...
Insert theme music here.
A question on baptism
- 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
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To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
- 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
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What I meant
- 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
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I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
- 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
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Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
- 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
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They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
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Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
- 11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
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You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
- 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
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Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
- 11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
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Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
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I took a holy dip into the Ganges
- 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
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Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
- 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
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Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
- 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
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A first responce
- 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
- 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
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The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
- 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
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My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
- 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
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That is absurd.
- 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
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It is absurd
- 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
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When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
- 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
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Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
- 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
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The point is that it's a symbol.
- 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
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I have no problem with water as a symbol
- 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
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You are totally missing the point.
- 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
- 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
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your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
- 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
- 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
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Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
- 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
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Shrug. It was on topic.
- 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
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The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
- 11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
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Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
- 10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
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Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
- 11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
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You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
- 12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
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I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
- 12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
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No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
- 13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
- 11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
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I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site 
*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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*NM*
- 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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