This is something that started bugging me after a random association yesterday. John the Baptist. On whose authority was he baptising people? No one had died for people's sins yet. From what I understand baptism functions in connection with that. Have I misunderstood something?
And why did Jesus need to be baptised?
I am genuinely curious about the doctrinal reasoning here. It has been a while since I studied these things and for the life of me I cannot remember anything about it. I know that there were several Jewish groups that practised baptism at the time, but I do not know the intra-Christian reasoning for this event.
You may be aware that, according to Matthew, John the Baptist himself raised the precise question you have: Why did Jesus need to be baptized? The short answer is that He didn't, but that He chose to do so as He chose to many thing to provide a righteous model for His subsequent followers. Baptism initiates the commitment to Christianity that many denominations complete with confirmation. That it IS a commitment is why many Christian denominations (most famously the Baptists) don't condone infant baptism; IMHO, it suffers the dual liabilities of being both presumptuous and pointless, no more meaningful than taking a national oath of allegiance on behalf of ones infant child. Baptism's predicated on repentance of sin and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior from it, but it's not like those who do those things yet never have the opportunity for baptism are denied salvation. Christ told one of the thieves crucified beside Him he would be with Him in paradise, and I'm pretty sure no one baptized him in the interim.
As far as Johns authority to baptize, it comes in two parts: First, ritual purification by washing is part of Jewish tradition at least as far back as Moses (IIRC washing before every meal is part of the Torah for reasons more obvious now than they were then). Additionally, Johns particular commission to baptize was in anticipation and on behalf of the Messiah Whose coming he preached; in essence, he baptized people for both their present repentance and future faith in a Savior not yet revealed, but imminent.
EDIT: Y'know, displaying this thread in a paged format could have saved me the trouble of making this post (which reiterates points various knowledgeable people had already made) and let me go straight to the more narrowly focused ones I made elsewhere (without the need to make three posts instead of one). Not a criticism, just an observation.
Yes. I was interested in seeing different arguments for it, though; more of the same is therefore also useful in that it points to a sort of consensus.
And the same could have been achieved by clicking on the posts above before posting.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
A question on baptism
10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
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To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
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What I meant
10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
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I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
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Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
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They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
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Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
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You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
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Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
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Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
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I took a holy dip into the Ganges
10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
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Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
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Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
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A first responce
10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
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The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
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My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
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That is absurd.
10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
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It is absurd
10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
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When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
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Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
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The point is that it's a symbol.
11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
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I have no problem with water as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
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You are totally missing the point.
11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
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your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
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Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
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Shrug. It was on topic.
11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
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The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
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Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
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Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
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You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
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I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
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No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic.
11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM
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Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic.
11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
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I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM*
12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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