Active Users:742 Time:14/11/2024 05:54:58 AM
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? Tom Send a noteboard - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
The theological answer is that John the Baptist was fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies surrounding Jesus that are quoted in the synoptic Gospels ( "a voice crying out in the wilderness" etc. from Isaiah 40:3-5). John baptized, by his own words, so that people would repent of their sins, which would prepare people for the coming of Jesus. However, Jesus would baptize with "fire and the Holy Spirit" (presumably by virtue of his death and Resurrection) and so post-Christ baptism is an entirely different thing than what John did in terms of its spiritual meaning and power. The interaction between Jesus and John is, essentially, John saying, "Why do you need to be baptized? You don't need to repent because you don't sin - not only that, but I'm preparing the way for you" to which Jesus says, "But I have been incarnated as a man and I want to show that I share and will ultimately bear and take away their sins. Oh, and you need to let everyone know I'm the one you've been preparing the way for, so snap to it."

The historical answer is that John was probably a crazy Nazirite radical, and was having people go into the water when they finished their period as Nazirites. We see John's followers condemning Jesus in Matthew 11, noting that John didn't drink wine but Jesus does. This has led to a lot of speculation about whether Jesus was supposed to have been a Nazirite and whether the whole appelation "Nazarene" was in fact an error.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
Reply to message
A question on baptism - 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM 900 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection. - 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM 655 Views
What I meant - 10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM 497 Views
I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM 468 Views
Re: I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM 559 Views
I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM 453 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM 455 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM 488 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM 437 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM 489 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM 465 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM 606 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM 463 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM 667 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM 665 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM 470 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM 498 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:33:01 PM 365 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:34:36 PM 431 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM 559 Views
Re: I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:54:17 AM 618 Views
He dances and dips in The Ganges- Very Nice. *NM* - 11/06/2011 02:15:41 AM 208 Views
Three dips - that's the ceremony. - 11/06/2011 02:35:43 AM 425 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity - 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM 594 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason - 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM 532 Views
I misunderstood, lets try again - 10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM 610 Views
Huh. *NM* - 10/06/2011 02:06:58 PM 252 Views
A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM 657 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:15:07 PM 629 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:19:25 PM 561 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM 628 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical - 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM 500 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water - 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM 592 Views
That is absurd. - 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM 686 Views
It is absurd - 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM 498 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move. - 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM 616 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water" - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM 441 Views
The point is that it's a symbol. - 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM 470 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol - 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM 540 Views
You are totally missing the point. - 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM 621 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense - 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM 586 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM 842 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM 487 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical. - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM 529 Views
Shrug. It was on topic. - 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM 810 Views
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM 647 Views
Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM 657 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM 229 Views
Because we are all nuts in our own special ways? *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:36:03 PM 199 Views

Reply to Message