Guess what the "I" in FICA is; the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program is insurance
Joel Send a noteboard - 10/06/2011 12:34:04 AM
SS is a tax, there's no product purchased. For paying that tax now, you become entitled to future return payments. It does nothing for you in the immediate, and in fact may never do anything for you period. It's a monetary transaction.
"It does nothing for you in the immediate, and in fact may neer do anything for you period" is integral to the meaning of "insurance".
Insurance is a product, with monthly premiums, highly detailed specifics about coverage, procedures, and benefits which are available immediately. It provides you health coverage beyond what you can pay out of pocket and defrays your costs over many years.
I don't see how the two are related in the context you place them. Unless you are claiming that private health insurance is equivalent to a federal tax?
I don't see how the two are related in the context you place them. Unless you are claiming that private health insurance is equivalent to a federal tax?
However shocking you may find that fact. Social security has always been designed and discussed as insurance in every country that has it, including the US. The Social Security Act covers more than that, but that's OK, because retirement income isn't the only form social insurance can take. The very premise of the retirement income aspect, however, was to provide a form of earnings insurance for people who lived beyond the age where they could work (hence it initially set the retirement age at 65, despite the fact that average US life expectancy remained well below that age until the fifties). Insurance, btw, is a service, not a product, not that really matters either way here. Incidentally, I've recently made on this very site the same argument Wikipedia notes on FICA: That because the payments are returned (with substantial interest) to anyone who lives long enough to collect them, it's not a true "tax" at all (though Wikipedia also notes that the SCOTUS the SCOTUS has ruled no one has an inherent right to their SS benefits).
This particular legal case is funny because Obama is in trouble mainly for NOT doing just what conservatives forbade and liberals demanded in the healthcare bill: Mandating enrollment in PUBLIC rather than various PRIVATE health insurance programs. Had he made it a public program he could have made it a public duty with ample SCOTUS precedent, but requiring people get it from private insurers effectively compels people to provide a private company profits or pay a penalty for not doing so, unpopular with everyone. Whether it's unconstitutional remains to be seen, but these days we decide constitutionality based on whoever currently happens to have political power rather than what the document actually says (see: "USA PATRIOT Act" ).
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 10/06/2011 at 12:41:26 AM
ObamaCare's Legal Death Spiral Continues.....great news for America!
08/06/2011 10:04:24 PM
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I'm not informed enough to comment on most of this, but can someone explain that last line to me?
08/06/2011 11:25:49 PM
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just a guess but
08/06/2011 11:40:44 PM
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Yeah, and I guess that's what I was missing (see my response to Tom).
09/06/2011 07:13:00 AM
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A lot of the debate from the centered around how many of those people there are.
10/06/2011 01:15:19 AM
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"...the government mandate to have health insurance was unlike any law in American history"...
09/06/2011 05:24:56 AM
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wait....
09/06/2011 04:34:13 PM
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Guess what the "I" in FICA is; the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program is insurance
10/06/2011 12:34:04 AM
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if you want to opt out just work for a local government
09/06/2011 06:01:06 PM
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a few high profile cases does not equal "most" in any sense of the word *NM*
10/06/2011 02:38:26 AM
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Actually, there's an even more relevant example.
09/06/2011 08:01:18 PM
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That's the best link I've ever seen posted anywhere on the internet. *NM*
09/06/2011 08:26:02 PM
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That's a very flawed example
09/06/2011 09:06:24 PM
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Did you read the Act itself?
10/06/2011 04:04:39 PM
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Yes, did you get the 'foriegn port' part of sentence, or did you stop reading after the comma?
10/06/2011 06:11:27 PM
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Re: Yes, did you get the 'foriegn port' part of sentence, or did you stop reading after the comma?
10/06/2011 06:54:29 PM
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It might help if you clarified what your point is
10/06/2011 08:05:30 PM
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besides it was still just a condition for a specific job not a blanket requirement for breathing
10/06/2011 08:36:07 PM
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In other words, this is as "unprecedented" as filibustering Bush judicial nominees (i.e. it's not).
10/06/2011 12:55:17 AM
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Oh well. Living in a shit hole country is something I love and a chance to change that is BS.
12/06/2011 05:21:25 PM
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