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Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM
The particle canon was ultimately questioned, yes, and that's encouraging; the status of GUTs is more troubling. The original GUT doesn't require (despite allowing) proton decay, but seems to be alone in that respect, despite experiments consistently arguing against proton decay (without ruling it out), and a GUT remains a necessary stop on the road to a ToE. I sincerely hope the picture is less muddled than that for those actively leading the search for explanations, though on one level a little confusion would be somewhat encouraging because it would mean people are questioning the canon. From the outside it often feels like GUTs multiply at the same rate "fundamental" particles once did, without improving our understanding any more.


GUTs, despite containing "theory" in their name, are all hypotheses at this point. Hypotheses often multiply without improving our understanding very much, because most of them are wrong. That's why we should try to avoid high levels of confidence in unsupported hypotheses, but we should not avoid generating them altogether, because we have to find the correct ones somehow.

Perhaps not the field as a whole, but since Dr. Carroll says exotic dark matter is confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, I "doubt" he's looking very hard for alternatives. I'm sure there are plenty of similar examples, but that's one we can both agree is representative.


Sean Carroll, like many theorists, constantly looks at new submissions from other theorists on arXiv and in print journals, which includes numerous alternative proposals for dark matter. Everyone wants to be the person who blazes a new trail, but no one wants to be the person who wanders off the trail and gets lost in the woods. Sean, like many astrophysicists, has made the judgment that the risk of getting lost in the woods in this area is no longer worth the reward of blazing a new trail. At this point, you seem to be complaining that Sean has a higher level of confidence than you do in exotic dark matter, as though your level of confidence were more appropriate despite your unfamiliarity with large amounts of the evidence and the fact that cosmology is actually his field. Who's the arrogant one supposed to be, again?

Not "thought police"; people can think what they wish, but in terms of reason everyone should, though not everyone does, take a critical view, and that's perfectly valid. I'm not questioning their math or their data, I'm simply saying that constructing untested hypotheses on top of others is dubious even if one team got lucky doing so. What would you think of a hypothesis right now that began "assuming dark energy is ultimately proven to exist... "? It might be interesting and even constructive thinking, and might ultimately be verified, but reproducing verifiable proof of something founded on something itself unverified seems a bit sketchy.


I would not think anything special about such a hypothesis; I've heard many that start in just that way. This is how generating hypotheses works; again, no one is putting a high level of confidence in such constructions right away. If you don't like this system, feel free to come up with a better one; I wish you the best of luck.
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Exciting video about the universe Camilla - 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM 1170 Views
Cool, and true *NM* Stephen - 28/04/2011 11:46:29 AM 356 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect. Joel - 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM 881 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM 820 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM 762 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM 860 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM 795 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM 691 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM 724 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM 822 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 898 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM 742 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM 695 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM 774 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM 700 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM 772 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM 715 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM 934 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Joel - 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM 742 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM 809 Views
Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:04 AM 1063 Views
Re: Apologies for the delay; internet's been spotty and I've been busy lately. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:18 AM 1057 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter: Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM 759 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Joel - 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM 880 Views
Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM 844 Views
That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM 843 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:24 AM 806 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:02 AM 974 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:29:36 PM 744 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 14/05/2011 05:35:56 AM 1036 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:09:55 AM 647 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 19/05/2011 02:47:25 AM 989 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:46:30 PM 768 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 25/05/2011 12:20:10 AM 1065 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:22 AM 871 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Joel - 10/06/2011 12:04:06 AM 1111 Views
Re: That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:12 AM 882 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99) Tor - 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM 1063 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry. Joel - 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM 742 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter. Dreaded Anomaly - 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM 736 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM 863 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM 688 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM 1214 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. Dreaded Anomaly - 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM 728 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM 937 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM 852 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 14/05/2011 05:36:24 AM 1035 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 17/05/2011 02:10:03 AM 760 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 19/05/2011 04:33:06 AM 1017 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 09:59:38 PM 763 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 24/05/2011 11:19:43 PM 716 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 24/05/2011 11:33:58 PM 676 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 25/05/2011 12:55:36 AM 778 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 31/05/2011 09:16:24 AM 726 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Joel - 10/06/2011 12:09:13 AM 898 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. Dreaded Anomaly - 14/06/2011 03:38:05 AM 860 Views
Might help if you clarified where your skepticism is at Isaac - 29/04/2011 02:32:07 AM 703 Views
Potentially either, or a combination of the two. Joel - 30/04/2011 02:36:50 PM 774 Views
It's hard to discuss without knowing your objections a bit more clearly Isaac - 30/04/2011 04:58:03 PM 685 Views
My primary objection is that alternatives to dark matter seem to have been ruled out prematurely. Joel - 02/05/2011 01:29:14 AM 825 Views
Well, they weren't, not really sure how else to put that Isaac - 10/05/2011 03:19:57 AM 877 Views
Alright then, objection withdrawn (cautious skepticism intact). Joel - 14/05/2011 05:34:17 AM 986 Views
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