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I don't know, it seemed a normal crisis response Isaac Send a noteboard - 24/04/2011 07:06:39 AM
The shit was hitting the fan and a lot of people were saying it was a good idea and its the sort of case where if two options are equally unsure in peoples eyes and one is to act and the other is to do nothing, people will want you to act. Bad move, IMO, but I consider the whole auto bailout less a right/left ideology issue as a bad but understandable crisis response, I don't really see the decision to do it as a black mark on congress or POTUS, what came after, when the immediate dust had settled, is another story.

The supposedly far left (for America) President offers billions of taxpayer dollars to a symbol of American industrial power. Despite bankruptcy, they make counter with an offer of the terms on which they'll accept a free money that is their only hope. Those who insist government doesn't give business enough taxpayer money call the whole thing socialism. Most bizarre moment? Right wing Senator and laissez-faire acolyte Senator Lamar Alexander drafting legislation to give every US taxpayer some of the GM and Chrysler stock, which is the closest thing I can imagine to nationalizing the companies. Corporate welfare is only socialism in this sense, which is a dream for those who see government as a servant of business alone, but anathema to supporters of legitimate socialism.


Crony Capitalism is also anathema to free market capitalists, better article for that too, that article really needs to be flagged for NPOV and Soap, I see its been flagged twice for deletion.

Can't say I object to parceling out the stock to the taxpayers, puts the ball in their court, seems a waste of cash though, shipping everyone one share, from a philosophical POV I sort of like the idea of parceling out ownership of shares if the taxpayers have to foot the bill, just divide up the current gov't stock into 300 million shares and send everybody one. Probably even boost sales by a noticeable amount, silly from a practical standpoint though but it's an interesting notion, might be worth it just to see the effect.

As for "too big to fail", that's part of the same philosophy, the one that said, "what was good for the country was good for General Motors and vice versa". I'm conflicted about letting it fail. The part of me concerned about the increasing degree to which America produces nothing but debt and little Americans is alarmed at the prospect of a non-existent US auto industry, particularly when the demise is, like the general demise of American manufacturing, laid solely on the shoulders of unemployed union workers who fought tooth and nail to stop US businesses exporting their jobs to countries with no human rights.


Well, the problem is nobody believes their motives really revolved around human rights. A lot of people were conflicted about letting it fail, me too, I just stuck to my ideological guns which is why I say I wasn't particular irritated that they chose to do it, just with how they've managed it since then. GM's one of our flagships, hard to watch it sink.

The part of me who watched the nation respond to melting ice caps and dependence on oil from countries who sponsor terrorism against us by buying SUVs thinks the culture of consumption, luxury and planned obsolescence is embedded nowhere as deeply as Detroit and only drastic need will force production changes that became standard decades ago in Japan and Germany. The Big Three can keep telling us we want huge powerful gas guzzlers, but we no longer have the economic means to believe it, so it's time they had management that produced saleable cars instead of marketing fantasies.


Oh, I really doubt our oil based jugular economy will last more than another 10-30 years, the same teams that grew and transplanted human windpipes have a bunch of successfully growing human hearts that are expected to start beating any time in the next week or so. That's some pretty badass shit. It only takes one big shifter product to change the whole dynamic, and better batteries, better superconductors, fusion, some GM plant or algae that can grow off green light too, any of those change the dynamic on energy problems. There's a lot of things that look right over the horizon, some don't pan out as hoped for like jetpacks, others we're way ahead of schedule on like cell phones and computing power, remember back in the early 90s when Virtual Reality was all the rave? Kinda disappeared into the vacuum, but the iPad's basically better than the cool little handheld readers they liked to show on Star Trek, being able to pull up wikipedia on something you keep in your pocket is a pretty mundane thing, but that's really huge, you can see people laughing about that as pie-in-the-sky even 20 years ago. Cheer up, don't be so pessimistic.

Either way, however, throwing money into a money pit doesn't produce anything but more debt.


Makes good compost probably, not sure about the inks they use in it though.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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But the Party had control of the capitalist running dogs industry! Comrade Obama,you fool! - 20/04/2011 05:36:26 PM 474 Views
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The whole thing was rather surreal. - 24/04/2011 05:04:32 AM 557 Views
I don't know, it seemed a normal crisis response - 24/04/2011 07:06:39 AM 475 Views
F*ck Obama - 20/04/2011 06:42:40 PM 611 Views
One reason I'm thankful for you: - 20/04/2011 06:55:55 PM 654 Views
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I don't know about that - 20/04/2011 07:38:30 PM 424 Views
lol, that's kinda what I thought. - 20/04/2011 07:53:12 PM 410 Views

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