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Re: Also on the buying drugs from Canada idea Isaac Send a noteboard - 18/04/2011 05:16:14 PM
However, price controls are a weird bug where intellectual property and future R&D makes up most of the cost.

Leaving aside the Imaginary Property issue, most costs of "R&D" costs are definitely on the "D" side: it's all those clinical trials to obtain FDA certification that make pharmaceuticals so expensive. And when something doesn't get a pass, that's tens of millions of dollars spent with no possibility to recoup costs.


I don't think there is an Imaginary Property issue, it's not a legal or economic term I've heard and I don't think a book's content should be considered imaginary property. As for more R than D, the difference between the two is very vague off paper, its generally and ongoing process that often uses a lot of the same people. The R and D are not really distinct in R&D, it's a term with its own meaning in going from an idea to a product.

That said, the pharmaceutical industry has never been hurting for profit every quarter-end: their TV marketing makes sure of that.


Their profits aren't that huge, the numbers I've seen that I consider reliable are 12-20%, you'll see lower and higher but every time I saw one outside that range it involved a lot of cherry-picking and selective calls on what profit was, like noticing a 50 million was spent on Drug X and they turned 37x on it compared to that and conveniently ignoring all other costs or how Drug Y resulted in 200 million in R&D and got yanked with millions in lawsuits on the table, while Drug Z got canceled after 50 mil in research and never had human trials. 12-18% is nothing to laugh at but when you're cushioning against a possible 5-year dry spell as patents expire and some research fails to work out you're looking at profits that are very comparable to what someone might pay on broad insurance for a risky undertaking, which is basically what they do. As for marketing, even gov't programs advertise, complaining someone is marketing a new drug is like complaining if the gov't runs an ad campaign for dialing 9-1-1 or sends out pamphlets to rural households telling them about deductions for for solar and wind and how costs stack up compared to running and maintaining power lines to their isolated house. Drug companies seem to operate like pretty much every other company, I think their bad rep boils down to the strong and often desperate need for the item and the absurd price difference between individual pill manufacture and final cost. Fortune 500, who is probably objective for our purposes, places them as the third most profitable major industry at 19.3%. If you look at the other top 10, which are the only ones running above 10% profit, most of them have a heavy component of R&D, either constantly having to make new stuff or in a market that's pretty new, like #2, Internet Services and Retailing, which Google tops out followed by Amazon, and its not unusual for companies like that to have been the lone survivor of a hundred or so original companies, enjoy huge profits for a couple years, then find itself topped out or even gone five years later. For some reason railroads are #5 at 12.6% and I would guess that 'reason' is gov't subsidy, mining and oil are #6 at 11.5%, and they engage in non-stop surveys and often find themselves eating the bill when some rig or deposit turns out to be a cost-to-benefit crap fest or country X has a rebellion and takes their stuff. The single most profitable industry is network equipment, at 20.4% (wow, the gouging!) and that's placing like Cisco who make network routers and can flop under if someone beats them to a cheaper better hub or whatever 2 years later or snatched the ball on something like wireless. The whole list only has 53 entries down Airlines at -13% and 11 though 43 all run at .6% to 8.7% profit. There's no industry out there selling stuff for twice what it cost them to make, or even a quarter more, so accusing them of rampant profiteering never makes much sense to me. And one can hardly claim Fortune's figures are low since Pharma's gonna being giving them the highest profit figure they can in hope of attracting investors, I mean they'd call them up howling and claiming it was 24.3% not 19.3% if they thought the claim had enough credibility.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Several basics facts about US Debt and Spending..... - 16/04/2011 04:41:55 AM 1127 Views
Well ... at least we've been here before ... ? - 16/04/2011 06:41:00 AM 648 Views
Guess we should have okay'd those death panels for old people then. Big money saver. *NM* - 16/04/2011 03:38:00 PM 331 Views
Yeah, those old people are draining the system..... - 16/04/2011 06:57:59 PM 627 Views
You're already worse off than much of Europe, honestly. - 16/04/2011 04:08:37 PM 762 Views
Re: You're already worse off than much of Europe, honestly. - 17/04/2011 01:33:31 AM 738 Views
Balancing our budget would be easy. - 16/04/2011 06:46:32 PM 581 Views
Also on the buying drugs from Canada idea - 16/04/2011 08:17:26 PM 691 Views
Re: Also on the buying drugs from Canada idea - 18/04/2011 01:59:44 PM 731 Views
Re: Also on the buying drugs from Canada idea - 18/04/2011 05:16:14 PM 902 Views
Funny you mentioned WWII and 1968. Can you put tax rates at these times as well? - 16/04/2011 07:50:09 PM 1071 Views
Not really. Even if you can substantially raise tax revenue, the entitlement problem remains. *NM* - 16/04/2011 08:25:26 PM 289 Views
Re: Not really. Even if you can substantially raise tax revenue, the entitlement problem remains. - 16/04/2011 09:19:40 PM 735 Views
Have you ever looked at those projections for a decade or two hence? - 16/04/2011 10:13:12 PM 676 Views
Yes I have - 16/04/2011 10:44:50 PM 805 Views
Erm, and you think total health care spending is not getting out of control? I'm a little confused. - 16/04/2011 11:02:52 PM 737 Views
Yes it's going out of control - 16/04/2011 11:17:59 PM 675 Views
Good, we agree on that much then. - 17/04/2011 09:59:17 AM 667 Views
Sorry, but that is a stupid opinion..... - 16/04/2011 08:38:35 PM 643 Views
Sounds like another bull. - 16/04/2011 09:31:05 PM 912 Views
Dude, the data is the data.....tax revenue increased all three times. - 16/04/2011 09:47:37 PM 852 Views
As I suspected, it's a bull. - 16/04/2011 10:02:05 PM 785 Views
Stop being a fool - read and react to the data provided, posting something..... - 16/04/2011 10:14:11 PM 545 Views
Response is - 16/04/2011 10:19:00 PM 767 Views
Good lord.....it's like talking to a brick. I really hope you are 12 or 13. - 16/04/2011 10:28:44 PM 761 Views
Re: Good lord.....it's like talking to a brick. I really hope you are 12 or 13. - 16/04/2011 10:47:24 PM 722 Views
I take it you mean "rate of revenue growth decreases". - 16/04/2011 11:11:19 PM 621 Views
Re: I take it you mean "rate of revenue growth decreases". - 16/04/2011 11:26:02 PM 771 Views
Additional point - 16/04/2011 11:37:17 PM 774 Views
I've just noticed that you've provided charts from Heritage Foundation! Are you f.. kidding me? - 16/04/2011 10:13:46 PM 643 Views
All the data is via CBO - do you know that the CBO is? - 16/04/2011 10:16:08 PM 653 Views
Re: All the data is via CBO - do you know that the CBO is? - 16/04/2011 10:27:01 PM 768 Views
Nice try.....care to explain why the same exact thing happened..... - 16/04/2011 10:35:44 PM 582 Views
Re: Nice try.....care to explain why the same exact thing happened..... - 16/04/2011 10:49:33 PM 711 Views
Krugman is a shill for the Obama administration. - 17/04/2011 02:34:50 AM 594 Views
Re: Krugman is a shill for the Obama administration. - 17/04/2011 03:50:24 AM 817 Views
Some obesrvations by Republican economists - 18/04/2011 12:27:04 AM 951 Views
You mean the Keynesian economist who wrote The Failure of Reaganomics - 18/04/2011 04:00:52 PM 584 Views
Re: You mean the Keynesian economist who wrote The Failure of Reaganomics - 18/04/2011 05:36:44 PM 572 Views
Useless fact about our presidents since 1945. - 17/04/2011 09:20:16 PM 817 Views
Re: Several basics facts about US Debt and Spending..... - 20/04/2011 03:51:19 PM 1002 Views

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