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Fair enough. Joel Send a noteboard - 25/03/2011 07:33:26 PM
When my boys were younger the rule was you get in fight you get punished. If it isn't worth getting punished for it isn't worth hitting someone for. Seemed to work pretty well and got rid of all the BS excuses and arguments about who hit who first. I know that my younger son sometimes started fights with his brother because he knew they would both be punished. It gave him some degree of power to be able to say “even though I can't beat you in a fight I can get both of punished and I would rather be punished by dad than be pushed around by you.” Empowering the little guy stops a lot of bullying.

As for the hang wring of physical violence I know when I thin back to being a teenager I was more hurt by things that were said to me than I was ever hurt by being hit and I got into more than my share of fights. When you listen talk about how miserable other kids have made their life it is rarely because of physical attacks. That being true why do you believe physical attacks are worse?

That's a good point; it's not a given that physical attacks are more damaging than verbal ones, and some verbal attacks are undeniably worse than some physical ones. My point is that punishing people for self defense discourages self defense. That effectively encourages attacks by telling would be attackers all attempts at self defense will be punished as "retaliation" rather than defense. Setting aside whether it's OK to encourage people to torment much bigger, stronger and self controlled people, secure in the knowledge that their victims must choose between being punished by their abusers or by an authority figure, it's a bad idea to tell people they have to take a beating before anyone will prevent a beating.

We don't have to get hyperbolic (however well it might illustrate the point); how many times must that kid in the video take a punch before it's OK for him to prevent another one? He's got his back to the wall and is being punched in the face; if fighting back still earns him a punishment, what, if anything, wouldn't? Does his attacker have to draw blood? Break a bone? Does he have to wind up in the hospital from attacks no authorities prevented before he can defend himself without being punished by those same authorities? "I hope he doesn't hurt me so bad I can't tell the principal what happened, but if I hit back I'll get detention". Sorry, I don't believe in starting fights, but I do believe in ending them. I can understand punishing both parties when provocation is so unclear that we can't be certain who provided it; there the "if it's not worth punishment, it's not worth fighting" logic makes sense, but when it's obvious and undeniable who instigated the fight I don't think it's right, let alone advisable, to punish people for refusing to be a punching bag.
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I guess this is one response to bullying - 24/03/2011 10:52:50 PM 1382 Views
I'm so proud of that kid. The teachers can fuck off. - 24/03/2011 11:04:29 PM 758 Views
Re: I'm so proud of that kid. The teachers can fuck off. - 24/03/2011 11:07:25 PM 668 Views
Same here - 24/03/2011 11:24:38 PM 956 Views
It's ironic that I'm reading this now... - 26/03/2011 06:28:31 PM 783 Views
Concur. The lame antibully programs at schools these days are ridiculous. - 26/03/2011 08:47:56 PM 573 Views
It didn't look pretty - 24/03/2011 11:06:00 PM 674 Views
He took care of it without going too far. Good on him! *NM* - 24/03/2011 11:56:22 PM 233 Views
*Stands up and applauds* - 25/03/2011 01:22:04 AM 755 Views
There's an uproar over this? - 25/03/2011 02:19:10 AM 914 Views
Re: There's an uproar over this? - 25/03/2011 04:52:15 AM 694 Views
Not expelled. - 25/03/2011 06:47:23 AM 664 Views
From what I saw they both got the same - 25/03/2011 10:13:43 AM 648 Views
That's retarded *NM* - 25/03/2011 01:40:34 PM 351 Views
not really - 25/03/2011 02:28:25 PM 631 Views
Plus... who gives a crap about a suspension at that age? - 25/03/2011 04:59:03 PM 599 Views
there is a real danger in not punishing self defense - 25/03/2011 05:17:38 PM 736 Views
Er... I get what you're saying, and I don't neccessarily disagree, but... - 25/03/2011 05:39:08 PM 746 Views
a good pop in nose as stopped a lot of bullying, isn't that what everyone is cheering for here? - 25/03/2011 06:41:28 PM 848 Views
This makes a good deal of sense. - 25/03/2011 06:47:42 PM 604 Views
I agree. *NM* - 27/03/2011 09:30:50 AM 267 Views
I'd find that totally acceptable - 26/03/2011 12:58:54 AM 633 Views
There is real danger in punishing self defense as well. - 25/03/2011 05:56:26 PM 807 Views
Bernhard shot people so lets keep the hyperbole out of it - 25/03/2011 06:56:03 PM 679 Views
Fair enough. - 25/03/2011 07:33:26 PM 723 Views
Completely agree. - 26/03/2011 07:55:00 PM 603 Views
I think the girl who stepped in deserves some respect as awell - 25/03/2011 02:32:48 PM 818 Views
Definitely agreed. - 25/03/2011 06:44:27 PM 627 Views
I thought this was going to be about your proposal - 25/03/2011 05:50:51 PM 621 Views
Pretty lucky he didn't get himself badly injured, yeah. - 25/03/2011 07:43:31 PM 781 Views
Huh. - 26/03/2011 02:00:51 AM 815 Views
That's pretty much what I'm feeling. - 26/03/2011 06:01:33 PM 631 Views
Same here - 27/03/2011 08:09:52 PM 773 Views
Lol. He fucked that kid up. Good for him for defending himself. *NM* - 26/03/2011 02:28:36 AM 250 Views

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