I fully support their right to demand democracy; I don't expect they'll get it, whatever happens.
Joel Send a noteboard - 31/01/2011 01:45:23 AM
You can make it a conditional support but in the end either you support people's right to demand democracy or you don't. If you only support democracy when people make the choices you like then you really only support the illusion of democracy.
Yes, that's what I mean by "the troube with free elections is: They're free". It's an aphorism I learned watching the Sandinistas, the Contras, the Shining Path and, of course, the democratically elected Iraqi President the CIA helped Saddam Hussein replace for the great crime of wanting to nationalize the oil industry. Of course, that's only a few in a long list; you could apply it to our Cold War sponsorship of both Nasser and his heir Mubarak, too, or the military goverment we maintain in Pakistan because bin Laden would win any truly free election by a landslide. If I thought this were even LIKELY to be another case like those I'd side with the protesters in a moment.
Unfortunately, it's not. If Mubarak goes down, which seems probably, everyone agrees the Muslim Brotherhood will run the next government. They almost literally invented Islamic terrorism, so while I don't expect them to oppress their own members the way Mubarak did, I DO expect them to be at least as brutal against women who lack a burqa, men who aren't Muslim, Muslims who don't subscribe to their own special brand of violent xenophobic Islam and Westerners. In short, I don't expect the heirs of man who listed individual liberty chief among his complaints against the West to install democracy, and if 51% of the minority allowed to vote endorse state sponsored international AND DOMESTIC terror I don't call it democracy. Mubaraks likely sucessors won't empty the torture chambers, they'll fill them, and they'll precisely BECAUSE they want to disenfranchise and brutalize the vast majority of Egyptians.
Now, if all the folks paid for the right political analyses are wrong and someone like Al Zawahiri doesn't institute an Egyptian reign of terror, great; I'll be glad to see democracy flourish in Mubaraks absence. I'm not holding my breath though; Mubarak's a thug, but there's a reason so many Al Qaeda members and leaders were and are in his prisons, horrid as they are. Sometimes it's black and white, but I don't think this one of those rare occasions.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 31/01/2011 at 01:48:23 AM
If anyone's looking for up-to-date info on what's going on in Egypt
28/01/2011 08:08:31 PM
- 624 Views
Clarify: Democracy fans should favor the protesters because they have more violent thugs,right?
28/01/2011 11:37:48 PM
- 474 Views
and socialism fans should favor the violent dicator since he can bring order and subsidies
29/01/2011 12:16:37 AM
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He mainly seems to bring close diplomatic ties to the US and alternatives to the Muslim Brotherhood
29/01/2011 12:59:48 AM
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You might want to do a quick check on the political situation in Egypt at this time.
29/01/2011 11:37:02 AM
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I've done a quick one; it makes me question whether government by the protesters would be better.
29/01/2011 11:44:10 PM
- 377 Views
It's a fairly simple matter, really.
29/01/2011 11:52:41 AM
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The trouble with free elections is: They're free.
29/01/2011 11:53:22 PM
- 326 Views
A vote for dictatorship and against democracy it is. Just checking.
30/01/2011 12:08:41 AM
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I haven't cast a vote.
30/01/2011 02:02:11 AM
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Not one that counts no, but still.
30/01/2011 01:11:59 PM
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None of any kind.
31/01/2011 12:10:07 AM
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so you support tyranny of others if it makes things more comfortable for you?
30/01/2011 05:15:01 AM
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I oppose brutal oppression; I'm unconvinced either side in this will end it, thus I withhold support
30/01/2011 05:21:37 AM
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some times it is black and white
31/01/2011 12:37:36 AM
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I fully support their right to demand democracy; I don't expect they'll get it, whatever happens.
31/01/2011 01:45:23 AM
- 528 Views
You're not seriously expecting them to do their revolution American Revolution-style, are you?
29/01/2011 11:28:31 AM
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I think terrorizing innocents and torching buildings is a poor way to claim the moral highground.
29/01/2011 11:32:19 PM
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British Colonialism wasn't a walk in the park
30/01/2011 03:53:58 AM
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Comparatively speaking, yes, it really was. Or at least in the US - not always so much in Asia.
30/01/2011 10:42:53 AM
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Re: Comparatively speaking, yes, it really was. Or at least in the US - not always so much in Asia.
30/01/2011 02:32:52 PM
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You can't be serious.
30/01/2011 03:07:18 PM
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Pretty serious
30/01/2011 04:52:24 PM
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Re: Pretty serious
30/01/2011 05:11:50 PM
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This is ridicolous
30/01/2011 05:31:31 PM
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I wouldn't normally think this necessary with you, but okay: let's go back and see what I said.
30/01/2011 06:34:09 PM
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you forget that it was supposdely thier own citizens the British were abusing.
31/01/2011 12:39:33 AM
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Sure, but organized into hostile armies. A rather different matter, that. *NM*
31/01/2011 09:46:25 PM
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I dont know if this will help you understand what is going on there
30/01/2011 02:45:41 AM
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Yikes indeed
29/01/2011 03:57:25 AM
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Apparently Egypt blocked access to Facebook, Twitter and some other websites.
29/01/2011 11:38:46 AM
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Heh, her update was basically "Thanks for turning facebook back on, Egypt."
29/01/2011 06:36:49 PM
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There seems to be some big misconceptions about the Egyption crisis
31/01/2011 11:52:37 PM
- 624 Views