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Re: no j-whitt987 Send a noteboard - 14/01/2011 07:35:07 PM
It is stupid to kill the insane thinking it will affect the way other insane people will act. If kill people and you can be shown to be insane then we medicate you and lock you away forever. If you are shown to be sane then we don't medicate you and lock you away forever.


So, medicate someone and lock them away forever if they are crazy. Some people would call that cruel and unusual punishment. Well, it would be unusual if the people who go out and shoot and kill people wouldn't use the insanity plea that is.

I don't oppose the death penalty in all cases but you need to show it actaully serves some good beyond just making them dead.


What it serves is actually getting a killer off the streets permanently. I think that sometimes locking people away for a time will help, but in extreme cases such as murderers and rapists I really can't see how people can justify letting people like that back on the streets.

I believe in punishing people for the sake of punishing them and I do believe vengeance has a role in out legal system but kill a person who is mentally ill is inexcusable. He may not be mentally he may just be disturbed and angry. If he is then he should face the same consequences as anyone else would. From what I have read he was fairly normal until his late teens when he started behaving irrational and paranoid. I suspect there is very good chance he is schizophrenic. Punishing a schizophrenic person for their actions is about like beating a dog for crapping on the carpet. It might make you feel better but that is about it.


For what it's worth I believe in a fair trial for every person that's convicted of a crime. What this guy seems to be getting though is something that I wouldn't be able to afford if I were accused of the same crime. How would that be fair to me if I did the same thing, but didn't get a great defense attorney that would pull out all the stops to get me off the hook? I could claim to be schizophrenic and get a doctor that has no morals to say that I'm crazy (no saying that will or is happening here, just an example) and get off the hook. Doctors can't always be trusted to make the right decision. What happens if he is examined by a doctor that is against the death penalty so much that he declares him crazy? He gets off with a roof over his head indefinitely, three meals a day, and no need to ever do a thing for the rest of his life. He'll be a drain on the economy just like everyone else that's behind bars.

On a side note what happens when you lock away hundreds or thousands of crazy people in a small mental institute? Batman Arkham Asylum is what happens. I know, I KNOW, "It's Batman! It's not real!" No it's not, but crazy people do crazy things, and what happens when crazies escape? Why keep murdering psychopaths around where there's a chance they could get out and murder more people?
Kirk: Spock, you want to know something? Everybody’s human.
Spock: I find that remark…insulting.
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What motivates someone to pull out all the stops defending the Arizona shooter in court? Shannow - 13/01/2011 06:46:14 PM 1590 Views
Because even the guilty are entitled to a full and proper defence. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 06:58:51 PM 1026 Views
A belief in everyone's right to a defense? *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:02:24 PM 533 Views
Isn't it a little strange... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:08:49 PM 1122 Views
I don't know anything about the woman or the people she has defended before Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:10:56 PM 978 Views
Timothy Mcveigh, Eric Rudolph, Theodore Kazynski, Zacharias Moussai, Susan Smith... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:16:07 PM 1149 Views
All of these strike me as people who might not get a fair hearing. Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:18:24 PM 1060 Views
Re: All of these strike me as people who might not get a fair hearing. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 07:23:15 PM 940 Views
So once you sit down and have a heart to heart with your client an discover that he is simply evil.. Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:30:53 PM 1162 Views
My god, man, take an ethics class. Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:37:16 PM 982 Views
So by your ethics... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:40:36 PM 1143 Views
If he can't be defended he can't be tried and thus he can't be convicted. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 07:44:57 PM 1163 Views
I suspect he disparages "technicalities" as well. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:48:14 PM 488 Views
some techincalites deserve it random thoughts - 13/01/2011 08:01:26 PM 999 Views
True. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 08:54:25 PM 486 Views
How is justice served if the accused has no defense? *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:47:01 PM 496 Views
Who said she sought out anyone? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 01:29:38 AM 1015 Views
Maybe he IS insane ßelals Girl - 13/01/2011 07:17:46 PM 1045 Views
So what if he is? Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:11:44 AM 934 Views
No, it doesn't change what he did. Rebekah - 14/01/2011 06:22:06 PM 998 Views
Plus ßelals Girl - 14/01/2011 08:05:36 PM 1073 Views
Capital punishment is more expensive than life in prison. Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:34:29 PM 1120 Views
So in other words out of self interest I should admire her? Now THAT's evil... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:38:36 PM 1186 Views
Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:40:42 PM 955 Views
Re: Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:49:56 PM 1084 Views
That's a critique of Lawyers, not a critique of Rule of Law. Dan - 13/01/2011 08:37:20 PM 1094 Views
Do you know what happened before there were defence lawyers for all accused? *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 10:37:55 PM 524 Views
Do you believe the severity of the crime should affect your defense? random thoughts - 13/01/2011 07:45:16 PM 1005 Views
No. Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:44:05 PM 1232 Views
How do you decide if it was "in cold blood" or not? Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2011 08:49:06 PM 1035 Views
Have you any way to back up this statement? Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:49:41 PM 1007 Views
The difference... Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:57:45 PM 1103 Views
How would you know he was the guy that stole the horse? *NM* Chas - 14/01/2011 11:32:15 PM 525 Views
re: Macharius - 13/01/2011 09:09:05 PM 980 Views
I just get a sense that those principles are worshipped more than the cause they supposedly serve... Shannow - 13/01/2011 09:19:59 PM 1008 Views
The principles and the cause they serve are the same. Macharius - 14/01/2011 02:13:43 PM 968 Views
Take a look at the part of the world who still use the villiage elder system random thoughts - 13/01/2011 09:36:18 PM 912 Views
That is one effed up world that I would not want to live in. *NM* Aeryn - 14/01/2011 01:42:34 AM 505 Views
random thoughts is right. Joel - 14/01/2011 02:42:38 AM 1250 Views
the belief that for the system to work everyone needs vigorous defense random thoughts - 13/01/2011 07:37:40 PM 986 Views
You managed to cover all three of my answers; +1. Joel - 14/01/2011 12:29:21 AM 1029 Views
Yes, exactly. And in fewer words than I'd have used. *NM* newyorkersedai - 15/01/2011 02:10:03 PM 660 Views
Probably a bunch of reasons beetnemesis - 13/01/2011 07:39:58 PM 996 Views
A belief in justice Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:24:25 PM 1123 Views
Personally, I don't see why being insane should excuse anything... Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:29:25 PM 1136 Views
It's a good thing you don't get to write the laws then Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:45:39 PM 1052 Views
Being insane doesn't excuse anything. Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2011 08:45:40 PM 1163 Views
Fame and money Wulf`gar - 13/01/2011 09:15:38 PM 934 Views
Many possible reasons. Tim - 13/01/2011 10:41:30 PM 1090 Views
Well said. *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 11:30:54 PM 562 Views
Oh, and I forgot one very important thing. Tim - 13/01/2011 11:33:33 PM 929 Views
He should have been shot in the street like a dog. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:09:38 AM 935 Views
Vengeance is not justice. *NM* Macharius - 14/01/2011 01:13:04 AM 493 Views
If the person is guilty, it's one in the same. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:17:54 AM 899 Views
No, it's not: their definitions and concepts are entirely different. Macharius - 14/01/2011 02:27:13 PM 1022 Views
Can`t consume blood, actually. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 04:10:57 PM 990 Views
well im so glad you find this situation to be so simple Aisha - 16/01/2011 03:45:52 AM 963 Views
Now that was a better post. Now we can talk. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:54:11 AM 1111 Views
That would not be a deterrent to people who are mentally ill. *NM* everynametaken - 14/01/2011 01:25:56 AM 531 Views
By that logic nothing would. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:29:41 AM 895 Views
And by that logic, we should kill people with HIV. Dannymac - 14/01/2011 06:20:03 AM 979 Views
Not at all. We should kill people with HIV if they're spreading it knowingly. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:31:48 PM 1177 Views
then we should kill people who spread the flu as well random thoughts - 14/01/2011 04:53:51 PM 1025 Views
That's absurd. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:21:36 PM 917 Views
it is absurd and that is my point random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:54:07 PM 1045 Views
That's not the issue. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 09:40:00 PM 978 Views
why are the different? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 10:02:06 PM 969 Views
HIV is incurable. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:09:47 AM 903 Views
Unless, you know, someone is deliberately spreading flu to old people or people with Chas - 15/01/2011 12:32:42 PM 953 Views
To my knowledge, no one has ever been convicted of that. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 03:32:49 PM 934 Views
People have been convicted for knowingly spreading diseases Isaac - 15/01/2011 01:05:22 PM 899 Views
you are correct that is why we need to fix our mental health system *NM* random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:22:22 PM 522 Views
Not everyone else is doing that. So who else are you trying to deter? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 05:25:28 PM 1078 Views
Everyone. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:23:41 PM 1191 Views
gang members get killed every day by other gang members so I would say it isn't working *NM* random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:31:29 PM 547 Views
If we were executing them publicly in the streets, maybe it would be. *NM* Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:33:30 PM 513 Views
why would you believe that? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:58:25 PM 982 Views
It's never been tried. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 09:40:54 PM 970 Views
So it's agreed, murderers should be given icecream. *NM* Stephen - 14/01/2011 09:43:36 PM 497 Views
did you actually read my reply where I explained that it has been tried? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 09:52:43 PM 1057 Views
Because it's not being done by the state. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:08:51 AM 948 Views
Yes, let's bring back the justice of the lynch mob. *NM* Aeryn - 14/01/2011 01:44:00 AM 465 Views
It is justice if the person is guilty. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:32:44 PM 873 Views
So how would you determine if the person is guilty and deserved death? Perhaps... with a lawyer? *NM* Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:05:13 AM 540 Views
No, a 5 minute trial wherein the judge watches the video of this guy killing everyone... Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:05:30 AM 1047 Views
What if he was a hired killer? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:19:12 PM 905 Views
They're pretty certain he worked alone. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:00:42 PM 954 Views
Also, did you see My Cousin Vinny? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:23:51 PM 990 Views
In this case, I'll risk it. *NM* Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:02:10 PM 490 Views
non occides, indeed. *NM* Ghavrel - 14/01/2011 02:37:29 AM 480 Views
Because he has absolutely no right to the laws dictated in the U.S. Constitution. Great Lord of Chaos - 14/01/2011 03:20:58 AM 1120 Views
The Constitution shouldn't protect these people. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:34:19 PM 912 Views
14th amendment -- equal protection clause. thanks for playing! moondog - 14/01/2011 04:22:17 PM 1000 Views
I'm not an American. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:27:52 PM 1089 Views
And believe me, that shows in more than where you were born. *NM* Ghavrel - 14/01/2011 11:28:28 PM 493 Views
If that's supposed to be an insult... Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:03:10 AM 962 Views
How do you determine if someone gets Constitutional protection or not? ßelals Girl - 14/01/2011 08:10:45 PM 972 Views
If someone is guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt... Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:26:36 PM 968 Views
He has a reasonable defense. Great Lord of Chaos - 14/01/2011 11:21:47 PM 1090 Views
I disagree. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:04:38 AM 1103 Views
That's preposterous. Great Lord of Chaos - 15/01/2011 10:42:04 PM 950 Views
He's not retarded, he's insane. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 12:28:45 AM 942 Views
Both are maladies that affect the mind and reasoning processes. Great Lord of Chaos - 16/01/2011 02:05:53 AM 987 Views
Then insane still have to pay for what they've done. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 02:53:47 AM 943 Views
There's a little flaw in your connection. Great Lord of Chaos - 16/01/2011 03:14:36 AM 943 Views
Again, I disagree. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:47:08 AM 1507 Views
Just because that's your opinion, doesn't mean that's applicable. Great Lord of Chaos - 17/01/2011 03:07:47 AM 1037 Views
Uh...I never argued that it should. Dragonsoul - 17/01/2011 03:33:43 AM 1221 Views
I wonder what the reaction would be if Michael Vick said that. Dannymac - 14/01/2011 06:18:00 AM 911 Views
That's absurd. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:35:16 PM 802 Views
yes because threat of death works so well on the insane random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:21:42 PM 982 Views
I`ve addressed this already. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 04:08:28 PM 903 Views
no you admitted it wouldn't deter them random thoughts - 14/01/2011 05:03:24 PM 976 Views
Re: no you admitted it wouldn't deter them j-whitt987 - 14/01/2011 06:55:22 PM 1143 Views
no random thoughts - 14/01/2011 07:15:11 PM 998 Views
Re: no j-whitt987 - 14/01/2011 07:35:07 PM 1005 Views
We recently put a man to death in Texas who was very likely innocent random thoughts - 14/01/2011 09:24:04 PM 850 Views
Just as an aside... I suppose you have no problem with Muslims cutting off the hand of a thief? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 05:30:50 PM 1020 Views
I invite you to show me where I've criticized the Islamic legal system. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:36:22 PM 1025 Views
OK. everynametaken - 15/01/2011 04:40:56 PM 1023 Views
I really don't care what Muslims do to each other. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 05:28:52 PM 924 Views
Actually castrating or chemically castrating? Rebekah - 15/01/2011 05:33:07 PM 1115 Views
I don't care either way really. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:03:01 PM 883 Views
i believe in the laws and ideals this country is based on Aisha - 16/01/2011 03:41:13 AM 1085 Views
And you felt the need to say that why? Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:44:40 AM 971 Views
I find it hilarious that a clearly guilty man will be defended. Defended against what? Dark Knight - 14/01/2011 03:22:20 AM 1041 Views
I'll tell you a couple of other things that could happen. Tim - 14/01/2011 08:26:52 AM 938 Views
There are still trials when someone pleads guilty *NM* beetnemesis - 14/01/2011 06:47:56 PM 510 Views
The Thing is... vandevere - 14/01/2011 04:57:04 AM 988 Views
What motivates someone to be the Arizona shooter? snoopcester - 14/01/2011 09:51:10 AM 977 Views
I found something of interest... vandevere - 14/01/2011 06:16:40 PM 883 Views
Because the thought of people with a lynch mob mentality running the show scares them way more than Tashmere - 15/01/2011 03:56:44 AM 955 Views
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