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Thank you. Legolas Send a noteboard - 12/01/2011 07:07:14 PM
But since I have no cookies I will give up the history argument I was going to lose anyways. Besides your description fits my argument that Hitler really has little in common with either side of the American political spectrum and actually moves closer to both parties depending on the issue. I will make one final argument on the issue though. The American right never supported fascism while the American left did work very closely with the communist at times. The ACLU is a fine example with its founders working directly with the USSR to spread communism in the US.

That isn't entirely true - a number of American companies (like IBM), businessmen (like Henry Ford) and bankers (the only one among the bankers I know by name off the top of my head is Prescott Bush, but I don't want you to think I'm trying to slander either of the presidents Bush by implication) were quite happy to have financial ties to the Nazi regime. And at least in Ford's case, that wasn't just about making a profit, but also about supporting a man he admired. But it's true that fascist and extreme-right regimes have never really had the kind of international appeal that the communist ones had - one suspects that might have a lot to do with their strong nationalism and focus on their own people, whereas communism had world-wide ambitions. Extreme right regimes can band together when it's convenient, and the European ones (plus Japan's) did, but if they're each convinced that their nation and culture is superior to everyone else's, genuine friendship with other nations becomes a bit difficult.
I don't know the names of the violent protest but let’s see which I can remember off the top of me head. Didn’t we just see protest in England over the tuition increases with the crown prince’s car being attacked? Then there was the one where the drunk guy got knocked down by a cop and had a heart attack. There have been two or three in Greece that became violent. France had the one where the Muslims were burning cars a few years back and one just last year over the changes in the retirement age. We had someone posting here about a protest in Germany where a guy lost his eye to a water canon. Didn’t Spain and Italy have some protest that turned violent recently? I don't follow European politics that closely but what I do see tends to involve police in riot gear and people throwing things. The only thing the US has that is close was the immigration protest but those stayed pretty calm for the most part. We had some violence after sporting events but that isn’t political.

Okay, fair enough, you threw me off by talking about political murders. But violent manifestations, yes, you have a point there.
We may be a little harsher with our words but the evidence suggest we are much less willing to resort to rocks and flaming bottles of gasoline. Besides I think how bad things have gotten is grossly over stated by the whining left. We have always had a confrontational political system and the only thing I really see that has changed is the number of people complaining. What is the smoking gun in this case? Palin used a icon of a gun sight to show which districts was being targeted during an election year. It was a district by the way that democrats had only recent gained so it made sense to target it. Yeah that is sure to whip the masses into a killing frenzy and is the same as shouting fire in a theater.

More respect for the police, I suppose (in certain environments in certain parts of Europe the attitudes towards the police are rather extreme, including notably in Greece as you noted). But I can't agree that nothing has changed. Even I, who considering my age obviously haven't followed American politics for that long yet, see a serious downward trend from when I first followed American politics to now.
Sorry this isn’t about tone it is about censorship and one side trying to silence the other by creating a false threat. The left is not very fond of dissenting ideas. I before you say it is a problem on both sides what we see is mostly coming from the left and there is almost no real effort on the right to silence anyone. Argue and attack yes but not deny them the right to be heard.

I think you really need to consider the idea that, even if you don't agree with them, those voices on the left complaining about tone do that because they're genuinely worried or even scared of what it will lead to. Not because they want to silence the other side. And it's not as if there aren't voices on the right who also complain about the tone.
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The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel - 10/01/2011 04:02:29 AM 1586 Views
The people politicizing this are idiots. - 10/01/2011 04:44:37 AM 853 Views
Can't argue with that. - 10/01/2011 08:05:32 AM 815 Views
Nothing to argue with there. *NM* - 10/01/2011 05:04:49 AM 315 Views
I do agree it's not her fault; she is a non-entity. - 10/01/2011 12:38:24 PM 782 Views
I agree. *NM* - 10/01/2011 03:41:30 PM 479 Views
The NYT and liberal media have created a climate of stupidity - 10/01/2011 05:47:29 PM 870 Views
Pot, Kettle. I think you two should discuss your color. - 10/01/2011 09:26:05 PM 892 Views
nice try but no - 10/01/2011 09:52:01 PM 809 Views
Close your eyes and fill your ears all you want... - 10/01/2011 10:51:45 PM 776 Views
that is hoot coming from the chicken little party - 11/01/2011 02:17:37 PM 803 Views
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...." - 10/01/2011 11:53:10 PM 1053 Views
no you are just wearing Danny's blinders - 11/01/2011 02:15:46 PM 906 Views
I try to steer clear of personal attacks. - 11/01/2011 04:00:35 PM 812 Views
I try to make my point clear and I can't help if you skip them - 11/01/2011 05:02:41 PM 808 Views
I didn't skip your points, I disputed them. - 11/01/2011 05:51:10 PM 782 Views
you keep claiming both sides but you fail to offer any support - 11/01/2011 06:00:41 PM 825 Views
Not so; you choose not to see the supporting arguments. - 11/01/2011 10:21:09 PM 770 Views
repeating the same claim is not the same as supporting it - 11/01/2011 11:36:52 PM 690 Views
Those who have accused specific people or groups will most likely have to backtrack and apologize. - 10/01/2011 06:48:33 PM 961 Views
they will neither back track or apologize - 10/01/2011 07:54:54 PM 817 Views
I don't really think the NYT has crossed that line I was talking about. - 10/01/2011 09:54:36 PM 833 Views
not sure where you draw your line but this crosses mine - 10/01/2011 10:11:04 PM 930 Views
Yes, well, Krugman is Krugman. - 10/01/2011 10:25:31 PM 765 Views
You see to be arguing we should assume his political views were created by the politcal climate - 11/01/2011 03:03:15 PM 1004 Views
Indeed I am. - 11/01/2011 06:18:56 PM 824 Views
wasn't pim fortuyn a right winger though? - 11/01/2011 04:33:26 PM 735 Views
Um, yes, that was pretty much the point I was making. - 11/01/2011 06:22:06 PM 824 Views
Was there anyhting besides his stance on immigration to support the argument he was far right? - 11/01/2011 06:31:05 PM 967 Views
Yes, though it's true that is the key part. - 11/01/2011 07:11:13 PM 930 Views
can one posistion define you as being far right or far left? - 11/01/2011 08:23:18 PM 851 Views
One single position? I wouldn't know, I can't think of any examples. - 11/01/2011 08:41:58 PM 919 Views
yes you did - 11/01/2011 11:40:50 PM 1031 Views
ok i get it now - 12/01/2011 02:33:48 AM 768 Views
... cut both ways because soulless opportunism knows no creed: - 10/01/2011 09:46:31 PM 868 Views
They probably wouldn't say much because it really doesn't show much - 10/01/2011 09:58:46 PM 746 Views
It really doesn't show that he has "left leanings". - 10/01/2011 10:07:48 PM 855 Views
Well they call him a liberal and like it or not the Nazi movement was an extreme form of socialism - 10/01/2011 10:22:04 PM 969 Views
Deep sigh. - 10/01/2011 10:34:33 PM 894 Views
well we are talking about the US right and left not the European one - 11/01/2011 01:11:30 PM 824 Views
Actually, I believe we were talking about the Nazi right or left. - 11/01/2011 07:04:56 PM 906 Views
wow I really need to stop posting from my i-phone an you deserve a cookie for being able to follow - 11/01/2011 07:48:35 PM 1017 Views
A thousand times no. - 11/01/2011 10:38:19 PM 1026 Views
Thank you. - 12/01/2011 07:07:14 PM 904 Views
as for how they want to use this - 12/01/2011 07:35:12 PM 956 Views
Liberal college professors didn't call the nazis far right, people who lived under Nazis did. - 10/01/2011 10:56:33 PM 1116 Views
If demoniizing your opponet makes your a fscist then you have made my argument for me - 11/01/2011 01:25:51 PM 947 Views
In a word, no. - 11/01/2011 04:29:36 PM 782 Views
really would you like to point to the right trying to use this to demonize the left? - 11/01/2011 05:59:49 PM 801 Views
I already have, irrespective of your inability and/or refusal to see it. - 11/01/2011 09:53:38 PM 857 Views
so point pointing out blood libel is the same as commiting it? - 11/01/2011 11:31:41 PM 1145 Views
I don't know enough about the story to say much save that partisan finger pointing is wrong. - 10/01/2011 10:30:51 PM 935 Views
First I don't even know who WorldNet is so I see no reasont o defend them - 11/01/2011 01:36:44 PM 816 Views
For someone who doens't know who WND is you sure circled the wagons around them fast. - 11/01/2011 04:21:40 PM 1013 Views
No they are in no way the same - 11/01/2011 05:06:43 PM 785 Views
They're precisely the same in tone. - 11/01/2011 06:04:42 PM 893 Views
the only thing you have proven is that you have zero support for your argument - 11/01/2011 06:36:14 PM 826 Views
Enough. - 11/01/2011 10:18:59 PM 794 Views
your evidience is dribble and if that is the best you can I am sorry - 11/01/2011 11:39:05 PM 785 Views
Liberals and Conservatives have rushed to frame Jared Lee Loughner’s motives... - 10/01/2011 10:34:09 PM 974 Views
Sounds like a plan. - 10/01/2011 11:11:50 PM 873 Views

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