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If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut. Joel Send a noteboard - 09/01/2011 01:20:42 AM
I would also hazard a guess that a lot of the extreme reactions to my "undiplomatic" posting style come from some of you being raised this way.

I've never been shy about expressing my views on the CMB, but I miss the days when I was able to be firm and clear without being belligerent. There's such a thing as respectfully disagreeing and, while I'm not directing this at you or any other individual, picking fights is frequently symptomatic of the second thing I referenced in my own thoughts on the article: Society will never tolerate an individuals vandalism, antagonism and even violence against others. When the parental response is to protect their little darlings and assure them that's a flaw in a society that doesn't appreciate their "self expression" it both condones anti-social behavior and feeds existing rejection of social mores that lead to alienation. Put another way, it not only approves anti-social behavior, but indicting the social structure actively ENCOURAGES such behavior as an alternative to social mores deemed misguided.

So, yeah, speak your mind, fully and freely, but if disagreeing with me doesn't make you an ignorant evil SOB, disagreeing with you doesn't make me one either. Some of my worst (and, regrettably, most recent) arguments have come from dismissing people with the assumption they've taken their position based on limited and/or skewed data. The truth is, most of the big controversies exist because they're complex and uncertain enough that strong rational arguments with copious observational data can be presented for BOTH sides. That's not to say there aren't still plenty of people on both sides who form their views based on a casual examination of the evidence, but few of the truly passionate ones do; people have a habit of researching the things about which they feel strongly, even if it's tempting to simply look for more evidence we're "right" than actually examine the facts to FIND OUT what's "right".


Sometimes .. just sometimes ..
I think we over quantize things and tend to make them too complex. Terms like "copious observational data" make me cringe. All I wanted was the yellow light to be 1.5 seconds longer on that one dangerous and huge intersection. I didn't need a 5 year 6 Mill $ study and a bunch of long hairs n gray beards to dig up "copious observational data" for both sides.

Bah .. go with the gut. Saves time.

Trouble is, the small potato arguments aren't usually the ones that turn into heated multi-decade national debates. Most of the big controversies exist because they concern important issues where there's no clear simple answer but IS a lot of supporting evidence for both sides. That's why flag burning wasn't an issue for very long: Most people don't care enough to argue it long, and most people will agree that burning the American flag is as asinine as it is legal. Abortion, on the other hand, is an issue in which tens of millions are heavily invested and both sides have plenty of well thought out reasons why they feel as they do, so whether it's legal or not at any given time the issue never really goes away.
Oh .. and let kids be kids already. FFS ... what is childhood without the hazards of street football and racing bicycles on the ice? And somehow .. just somehow .. Hucm Finn didn't cause any race riots when I was a kid. It was a book we read, did a report on and moved on. NO ONE was damaged by reading the thing. FFS.

I still think people today are too apt to making child rearing a pissing contest, so no one can say a word against their precious little darlings and those perfect angels should be able to do whatever they like without parents or anyone inhibiting their freedom of expression. The sad thing is that parents who are willing to provide discipline have to constantly look over their shoulder for some busybody who'll call CPS on them for being responsible parents.
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Child Psychology: Are Todays Parents Mental? - 06/01/2011 11:21:53 PM 1130 Views
Fuck. *NM* - 06/01/2011 11:29:00 PM 198 Views
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... *NM* - 06/01/2011 11:47:19 PM 273 Views
Re: ... - 07/01/2011 12:35:04 AM 612 Views
I find this interesting on two levels: - 06/01/2011 11:33:31 PM 643 Views
As one of today's mental parents... - 07/01/2011 12:01:36 AM 781 Views
Agreed. - 07/01/2011 12:34:18 AM 719 Views
Re: Agreed. - 07/01/2011 03:04:53 PM 668 Views
Very interesting article, thanks for posting. - 07/01/2011 01:36:51 AM 724 Views
Not surprising. - 07/01/2011 01:52:57 PM 647 Views
Re: Not surprising. - 07/01/2011 02:21:55 PM 665 Views
Yeah, Macharius pretty well covered it. - 07/01/2011 06:34:13 PM 638 Views
meh - 07/01/2011 02:34:47 PM 639 Views
I disagree; even to the extent that's the real problem it's still down to indulgent parents. - 07/01/2011 04:52:26 PM 697 Views
exterem paretnal involment is being overstated - 08/01/2011 03:10:09 AM 633 Views
It's extreme indulgence, not involvement. - 08/01/2011 03:44:43 AM 654 Views
"Kids need to feel badly sometimes"? What should we do? Dip their fingers in acid? - 07/01/2011 03:00:17 PM 561 Views
This. - 07/01/2011 06:10:30 PM 502 Views
I would classify editing the N-word out of Huckleberry Finn to apply to this issue... - 07/01/2011 11:26:05 PM 596 Views
"Undiplomatic" is one thing, "inflammatory" quite another. - 07/01/2011 11:51:03 PM 524 Views
Re: "Undiplomatic" is one thing, "inflammatory" quite another. - 09/01/2011 12:20:47 AM 626 Views
If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut. - 09/01/2011 01:20:42 AM 596 Views
Re: If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut. - 09/01/2011 01:28:28 AM 534 Views
Sadly so. - 09/01/2011 01:32:23 AM 536 Views
Re: Sadly so. - 09/01/2011 01:41:39 AM 481 Views
Hadn't seen that, no. - 09/01/2011 11:21:20 PM 631 Views
Re: Hadn't seen that, no. - 10/01/2011 04:59:53 PM 662 Views
. *NM* - 09/01/2011 12:43:38 PM 309 Views
Re: . - 09/01/2011 10:40:00 PM 564 Views
well your reply shows us what we end up with if we have over indulgent parnets - 10/01/2011 04:08:38 PM 582 Views
It's a good article, but contains a bit of oversimplification. - 11/01/2011 09:36:35 PM 574 Views
Actually, I tend to agree, 'cos I somewhat agree with rt it diagnoses symptoms better than problems - 11/01/2011 11:53:48 PM 770 Views
Re: Actually, I tend to agree - 15/01/2011 08:04:58 PM 613 Views
Re: Actually, I tend to agree - 15/01/2011 11:30:08 PM 594 Views

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