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I think there may be platonic forms defining purpose Sports_Gambler Send a noteboard - 16/09/2009 06:27:36 AM
See 'Platonism', the idea is that there exist abstrast 'ideals' beyond space and time - so there would be some ideals for morals/values as well. But these are not a seperate 'substance' as such (platonic ideals are abstractions).

Bear in mind that because platonic ideals are inert, they can't do anything by themselves - I think all purpose can only operate through consciousness (i.e platonic purpose exists, but it needs consciousness to manifest itself, or speaking metaphorically, God is not a force which can influence the physical world directly, instead he can only work through our own conscious awareness, he needs us to enact his essence).

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Do you think there's some kind of spiritual substance in the universe? Lordling - 14/09/2009 02:42:22 PM 821 Views
no, it is mostly hydrogen *NM* random thoughts - 14/09/2009 02:43:47 PM 247 Views
No *NM* Insolitus - 14/09/2009 03:01:32 PM 225 Views
not a chance *NM* clam - 14/09/2009 03:23:02 PM 234 Views
yes (in as much that we could choose to define it that way) LadyLorraine - 14/09/2009 03:31:40 PM 616 Views
On a gut level, I think all substance is teleologically tied to one or more kinds of consciousness. Burr - 14/09/2009 04:03:31 PM 557 Views
aaah but who says we can percieve all there is to percieve in relation to our persons? LadyLorraine - 14/09/2009 04:14:08 PM 518 Views
But merely positing a soul (as a spiritual substance) doesn't actually explain anything. Burr - 14/09/2009 07:46:35 PM 494 Views
i'm not saying that all inexplained qualities are due to "soul" LadyLorraine - 14/09/2009 07:50:27 PM 552 Views
Re: i'm not saying that all inexplained qualities are due to "soul" Burr - 14/09/2009 08:05:41 PM 553 Views
Carts and horses. Joel - 18/09/2009 12:10:22 PM 684 Views
No *NM* Monkey - 14/09/2009 05:14:33 PM 227 Views
Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? jh - 14/09/2009 05:27:09 PM 552 Views
Re: Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? Lordling - 14/09/2009 06:20:45 PM 529 Views
I think there is definitely a spiritual force that underlies the unity of all things Matrimony Cauthon - 14/09/2009 06:11:01 PM 565 Views
That sounds very like gnosticism in many ways. Joel - 18/09/2009 12:17:51 PM 573 Views
No. *NM* Entophile - 14/09/2009 07:06:59 PM 222 Views
define "spiritual'. Avendesora - 14/09/2009 07:36:18 PM 500 Views
Rum. Craig - 14/09/2009 08:25:46 PM 557 Views
YES! *NM* Elaine - 16/09/2009 02:10:55 PM 255 Views
How are we not married? *NM* Craig - 19/09/2009 04:10:13 AM 230 Views
Bigamy laws. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2009 03:49:59 PM 212 Views
My Achilles heel! *NM* Craig - 19/09/2009 07:30:06 PM 234 Views
Timing *NM* Elaine - 21/09/2009 12:51:37 PM 225 Views
My Achilles ankle! *NM* Craig - 21/09/2009 08:14:42 PM 241 Views
Your Face. *NM* jh - 21/09/2009 08:21:44 PM 223 Views
My Achilles face! Craig - 07/10/2009 09:40:36 PM 452 Views
No *NM* Dragonsworn - 14/09/2009 09:09:16 PM 214 Views
No *NM* Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:31:14 PM 229 Views
Yes, vodka. *NM* Stephen - 14/09/2009 10:02:19 PM 213 Views
Substance? Great Lord of Chaos - 14/09/2009 10:08:04 PM 518 Views
Yeah, boobs. Vodalus - 15/09/2009 01:51:44 AM 502 Views
Not the way I'd put it, as jh notes, but unquestionably. Joel - 15/09/2009 03:17:22 PM 544 Views
Look, don't put words in my mouth. jh - 15/09/2009 04:50:13 PM 572 Views
Sorry. Joel - 15/09/2009 05:14:10 PM 502 Views
Re: Sorry. Burr - 17/09/2009 09:20:58 PM 474 Views
People over-complicate this, it's a sort of animal abuse Isaac - 15/09/2009 09:03:01 PM 531 Views
Nicely put. *NM* everynametaken - 17/09/2009 01:57:44 AM 207 Views
Very nicely put. *NM* Ghavrel - 17/09/2009 06:57:57 PM 211 Views
A sublte nuance most modern materialists miss. Joel - 18/09/2009 12:21:33 PM 752 Views
I think there may be platonic forms defining purpose Sports_Gambler - 16/09/2009 06:27:36 AM 489 Views
The material universe precludes a purely natural cause. Joel - 18/09/2009 12:04:16 PM 624 Views
One little correction Isaac - 20/09/2009 12:34:13 AM 630 Views
That makes it more complex, but I agree the same basic problem persists. Joel - 07/10/2009 12:11:07 PM 660 Views
Nay. Burr - 20/09/2009 07:04:47 AM 489 Views
Re: Nay. Joel - 07/10/2009 11:55:28 AM 545 Views
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