~shrugs~ SK has lived with this a long time, and will continue to do so.
Variant Send a noteboard - 24/11/2010 10:26:44 PM
That would be true if we didn't have US military personnel and civilians there in large numbers. Still, so long as it remains between South and North Korea it will largely be their call (North Korean attacks on US military bases or vessels change that, and IIRC such an attack was recently made against a USN ship as well, bringing me back to "how many times must they attack before you admit we're at war?" ) so if they genuinely insist on being bloodied and bullied by the North, perhaps we should leave them to it. It's not like North Korea would, like, INVADE (as in the Korean Conflict) or launch full scale attacks; North Korea will ONLY attack in response to South Korean provoking them by resisting attacks. You don't see any, um, flaws in that logic...? .
The only reason we have troops there, is because if the North Koreans do all out attack, crossing the DMZ, American troops will get killed, and therefore America will be dragged into the war by obligation. They're pretty much held there as a guarantee for the South. And I’m sure there are other geopolitical reason why it’s useful to have our troops on the Korean Peninsula, especially in regards to the rise of China
If you don't resist your conquerors they won't shoot you (as much). Brilliant....
~shrugs~ First of all, I didn’t realize South Korea was conquered, they're still and independent sovereign nation. And Second of all, I don’t make the strategy here, the South Koreans do, talk to them about it, if you’re unhappy.
In a word, no. What South Korea wants is largely irrelevant at this point, too: Whether or not they want war, they've got it. Setting aside the fact that the state of war between the two Koreas has never ened, when a foreign state is killing your military and civilian personnel in repeated military attacks, those are acts of war. Burying your head in the sand and saying, "it's not war until we call it that!!!" won't do them any more good than it did Neville Chamberlain. They have every right to do so, I agree, but there's no reason Americans should be along for the ride. The peace at any price faction has wanted us out for some time; maybe it's time to give them what they want. I DO believe strongly in self determinism, and that very much includes the suicidal kind.
As I said, you’re free to talk to them about that. But the fact of the matter is, they have a much more visceral connection to what’s going on then you. It’s easy to say from the other side of the ocean in the comfort of your computer that the SK government needs to grow a backbone and attack the North and get it over with. But when you stand to lose everything that your nation has achieved, it’s a little more complex than that. Not saying I agree with them or not, just saying I understand why their being cautious.
In fact, that should probably be Americas attitude toward the world at large: If we're going to send our soldiers to risk their lives and limbs for your freedom, don't handcuff them; if you don't want our help that's fine, too. If our oppression is so offensive to Mid-Easterners and South Koreans maybe it's time to step back and let them enjoy the freedom that only comes from letting North Korea and Iran execute homosexuals on sight. It won't significantly impact our readiness and preparedness, and I don't think Japan will need to be told why American hegemony is preferable to Chinese.
I actually support this, considering we have budget problems here at home. But I assume we maintain many of our soldiers and bases abroad not just for their protection, but let’s face it, for our own geo-political motives as well.
North Korea attacks South Korea and no one mentions it?
23/11/2010 10:56:03 AM
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"Oh God, Oh God, we are all going to die?"
23/11/2010 11:09:30 AM
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Yup, but the day Beijing decides they're better off not intervening the Appeasers look very dumb.
23/11/2010 11:23:35 AM
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The appeasers look very dumb at this point regardless.
23/11/2010 04:11:41 PM
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yes, because we want to fight *ANOTHER* proxy war with china *NM*
23/11/2010 04:29:18 PM
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"Wanting" has nothing to do with it. There are few alternatives.
23/11/2010 04:50:02 PM
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Honestly, it COULD go either way.
23/11/2010 05:14:18 PM
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The fact that it could go either way is a testimony to the longevity of Chinese leaders.
23/11/2010 07:04:14 PM
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I don't believe in striking first but, frankly, it's long been a moot point.
23/11/2010 05:09:49 PM
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You know I like to sleep in, remember?
23/11/2010 11:20:33 AM
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Agreed
23/11/2010 02:07:30 PM
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I worry North Korea long ago decided to solve domestic problems with international aggression.
23/11/2010 02:26:36 PM
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That is 'cause everyone else is hiding out in their nuclear bunkers
23/11/2010 11:40:33 AM
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Re: That is 'cause everyone else is hiding out in their nuclear bunkers
23/11/2010 11:46:03 AM
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Re: That is 'cause everyone else is hiding out in their nuclear bunkers
23/11/2010 11:57:51 AM
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The really sad part is, that along with everything else worthwhile in the British Empire...
25/11/2010 09:49:00 AM
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I actually had no clue.
23/11/2010 01:14:20 PM
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Re: I actually had no clue.
23/11/2010 01:15:10 PM
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Re: I actually had no clue.
23/11/2010 04:32:17 PM
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Re: I actually had no clue.
23/11/2010 04:36:59 PM
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Careful; qualify all your generalizations and people (especially him) will think you're me.
25/11/2010 02:03:42 PM
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Nuke the fuckers and be done with it. And let China know it's their fault. *NM*
23/11/2010 02:58:56 PM
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you know the world doesn't exist until america wakes up in the morning, right? *NM*
23/11/2010 04:27:27 PM
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OK, have had time to read it, and someone needs to fact check a very important part of that article.
23/11/2010 04:52:02 PM
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Fact checking:
23/11/2010 08:38:57 PM
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The term "truce" used in a different Guardian article seems better.
23/11/2010 09:20:19 PM
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Well
23/11/2010 05:24:02 PM
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Same reason we don't give all our allies (especially neighbors) our best hardware.
23/11/2010 07:43:54 PM
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Actually, no, it looks like The Guardian is just schizoid on this subject.
23/11/2010 08:16:45 PM
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This has been coming for a while but I hoped the West would step up and help out. *NM*
23/11/2010 08:31:40 PM
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There's not going to be any all-out conflict
24/11/2010 12:56:44 AM
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They're getting aid from South Korea now, and killing them anyway.
24/11/2010 01:20:33 AM
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No kidding, that's been going on for quite some time.
24/11/2010 02:49:50 AM
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That is the crux of it, I suppose.
24/11/2010 03:02:40 PM
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~shrugs~ SK has lived with this a long time, and will continue to do so.
24/11/2010 10:26:44 PM
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Parts of it have; some South Koreans stopped living with it a few days ago.
25/11/2010 01:48:02 PM
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