I think that religious fundamentalism -- either the hard kind, or the soft kind (which we're supposed to pretend is okay) -- is contributing to an environment where people on the sharp end of the judgment stick probably feel burned by it. I can understand being religious and having been brought up with a certain perspective, i.e. gay people existing/scewing/marying is "wrong" and shouldn't be allowed, but like whoever this person is, I don't think this means that we tolerate it.
Don't tolerate intolerance!
Is that a bumper sticker yet, and can I make money off it?
I guess my comment is: if I were gay and wanted to marry, and someone said: "Oh, I'm sorry, but Christ doesn't allow that. I wish he did. But morally, it's wrong." that, to me, would translate exactly to "fuck you".
Free the gays! And the religious!
Don't tolerate intolerance!
Is that a bumper sticker yet, and can I make money off it?
I guess my comment is: if I were gay and wanted to marry, and someone said: "Oh, I'm sorry, but Christ doesn't allow that. I wish he did. But morally, it's wrong." that, to me, would translate exactly to "fuck you".
Free the gays! And the religious!
I recall having this discussion a few times on wotmanias CMB, and stand by my position there: Tolerance includes tolerating intolerance, and if that makes you question some of your bedrock assumptions, maybe it should. It's like free speech; you never hear people demanding "tolerance for ice cream!" or "free the people who don't play loud music after 10PM!" because they're not exactly under assault. Tolerance is Voltaire saying he may not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. So we have to tolerate bigots, too, or we're just practicing selective bigotry of our own; if the particular part of the populace we choose to hate and/or disenfranchise is an extremely small and unpopular one, that just means we're very SKILLED bigots. You can disagree with them, argue with them, oppose them publicly, "withstand [them] to [their] face" as Paul did when Peter was shunning Gentile Christians, but what you can't do, if you claim tolerance, is muzzle them. The one exception is when they're committing or encouraging violence; obviously your right to be loud and ignorant still ends where the cross ignites on my lawn.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Love the Sinner
13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM
- 1181 Views
I have to think about that for a while.
13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM
- 714 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations
13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM
- 653 Views
That is not what I think requires thought
13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM
- 658 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey
13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
- 787 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM*
13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM
- 341 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves
14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM
- 697 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned
14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM
- 688 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian)
13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
- 775 Views
I'm not sure that is true
13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM
- 659 Views
When's the last time you heard the quote attributed to anyone else?
13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
- 635 Views
That many people don't know the correct origin doesn't change it though
13/10/2010 09:31:13 PM
- 786 Views
I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM
- 740 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )...
13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
- 573 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before
13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM
- 766 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM*
13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM
- 302 Views
why do you believe that? Because I don't agree with what you said?
13/10/2010 07:30:27 PM
- 686 Views
I said you aren't listening to a thing I said, for you didn't respond to anything that I wrote
13/10/2010 07:52:50 PM
- 667 Views
you are not interested in talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you
13/10/2010 09:01:03 PM
- 657 Views
I think there's truth in this as well.
13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM
- 710 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it
14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM
- 682 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM
- 742 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM
- 750 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM
- 736 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM
- 767 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM
- 777 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew?
14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM
- 636 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you?
14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM
- 761 Views
There's a good case on both sides (try Strong's Concordance, if you haven't, btw. )
15/10/2010 05:09:21 AM
- 1179 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point
13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM
- 784 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying?
13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM
- 685 Views
Many good points there; I think I'll let you play Defender of the Faith for a bit.
14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
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I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view
13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM
- 679 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things
13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM
- 768 Views
I mostly agree
13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM
- 834 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance
14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM
- 647 Views
Let me see if I can understand where we agree, it is hard to do with all the Sarcasm
13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
- 719 Views
Meh. He's not entirely incorrect. But not all Christians are anti-gay.
13/10/2010 08:43:04 PM
- 741 Views
It is better to be a Tolkein than a Token
13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
- 712 Views
If I were a Tolkien liberal Christian, wouldn't that make me an American Roman Catholic? *NM*
13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
- 280 Views
Interesting
13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
- 999 Views
His first three sentences were totally unecessary. The rest is conspiracy-laden nonsense.
14/10/2010 12:37:06 AM
- 764 Views
Re:
14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM
- 752 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker.
14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
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Re:
14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM
- 760 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM
- 662 Views
I don't think there is any question...
14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM
- 712 Views
A lot of Christian doctrine states that people cannot know who is worthy of God and it's not up to
14/10/2010 05:41:19 AM
- 709 Views
I think he's reading a lot of things into that letter that aren't there.
14/10/2010 08:22:13 AM
- 663 Views