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That seems a little myopic to me. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM
(edit because I'm dumb and forgot to preview)

A question: Do you "support" atheist marriage? Interfaith marriage? Divorce and remarriage? All are legal, all go against Christian and/or traditional ideas about marriage, and yet there's no "Christian" movement to deny marriage rights to atheists or people marrying outside their respective faiths or people divorcing and remarrying. Why the hell not?


Personally, as a Christian, I do note vote *against* Gay marriage. I wouldn't for *for* it either, though. I view homosexuality as the Bible does, as sin. I also happen to see that the Bible points out *a lot* of things as sin, like lying and adultery, and that there is little value to singling out Gay people as being some kind of "super" sinners. We've all fallen short and, while homosexuality has a much bigger "gross" factor to the rest of us, it doesn't make it legitimate grounds for demonizing folk.

Whether or not you are demonizing homosexuals, the simple fact is that they are being treated differently than all the other sinners. Sure, we're all sinners in the eyes of the Lord, great, but all those other sinners can still be married. If gays aren't super sinners, as you put it, why are they singled out in this regard? You state that you don't support gay marriage without addressing this simple disconnect. And whether or not I agree with his argument that this leads to an implicit sanctioning of their bullying or whatever other mistreatment, that kind of renders the rest of your argument rather academic.

Gays can get married under both secular and Church law to all the same people they could if they were straight. Likewise, just because I'm straight doesn't make gay sex OK in the eyes of the Church, it just means it holds no appeal for me. It LOOKS different when you're affected by it, but ultimately I don't see it any differently than saying, "My best friend married my ex-girlfriend and now God and the law say I can't; WHY DO THEY PERSECUTE ME?!!! O^" The same rules apply to everyone, but the particular form that takes will vary with the person and their actions.

At the risk of re-opening another can of worms, I'll just note in passing that there's no explicit prohibition on two men being in love or even living together as domestic partners or whatever: They just can't have sex with each other any more than they could if they were just roommates. That leads us back to how important ones sexual gratification is relative to ones faith, but it's not really about sexual orientation at all (ask any preachers daughter who's been to Prom.... :winky: )
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Love the Sinner - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1179 Views
I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 711 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 650 Views
That is not what I think requires thought - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 657 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 784 Views
for ze record - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 674 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 340 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 695 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 687 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 678 Views
He was very frank but completely founded - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 747 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 773 Views
I'm not sure that is true - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 657 Views
I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 737 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 570 Views
Yes and no - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 831 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 302 Views
I would think... - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 726 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 764 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 301 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 707 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 678 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 741 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 747 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 732 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 765 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 775 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 633 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 760 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 737 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 777 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 782 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 683 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 704 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 694 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 675 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 764 Views
I mostly agree - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 832 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 645 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 705 Views
Interesting - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 996 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 592 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 281 Views
Okay my response now - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 729 Views
He becomes what he hates. - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 856 Views
Good stuff. *NM* - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 303 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 750 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 813 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 755 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 660 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 775 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 690 Views
I don't think there is any question... - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 709 Views
If I may quibble: - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 536 Views
He's bullying Christians - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 690 Views
I agree - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 788 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 891 Views

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