nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again
random thoughts Send a noteboard - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM
The banks will operate in what they consider their own best interest without regards to your wellbeing.
Your point being?
My point being why would yu not do what is in your best interest without regards to them? Are you a sheep that will alow his moral code to be used to lead him to slaughter without even questioning it?
I think is funny, just not in a haha sort of way, that you ask my point but then ignored it a couple of line down. The banks first obligationis to the shareholdres, shouldn't yours be to your family? Is it moral to let pride keep you from meeting that obligation by not doing what is in their best interest?
They will argue that their first obligation is to their stock holders.
Because it is true. That makes it a very good argument.
I owe no obligation to their stockholders. If they can do whatever is legal to advance their interest why should regular people feel a moral obligation to not do the same?
Wouldn't a lean holder’s first obligation be to their family? You did not enter a blood oath you enter a legal contract. A legal contract that leaves you the legal right to walk away at the cost of the home and your credit rating. Is it immoral to exercise that legal right?
Is it moral to murder someone as long as you are perfectly willing to serve the time? Penalties are not an alternative contract, they are a deterrant. It IS immoral (no one asked about legality here, and the article above appeared to be trying to differentiate between the two concepts & standards) to do something wrong, regardless of whether or not you accept the penalties. If the bank wanted your house, they'd buy it themselves rather than loaning the money out to you. And by not paying the interest, you are depriving the bank of their rightful recompense for the service they provided you (which is what interest is). You are morally NO different than the owner of a company who files for bankruptcy to avoid paying off his employees while still possessing the means to do so. In both cases, one party is avoiding the rightful payment for services rendered. That is a stupid argument since murder is not legal.
Is it rational to act against your own best interest by behaving in a “moral” manner with and company that feels no obligations about treating you in a moral way or their own debts for that matter?
The actions of others have NO bearing on the morality of your own, except when you are reacting to an action that directly affects you. If they are attempting to defraud you that is one thing. Refusing to follow through on your end of a transaction is another entirely. The actions of others do not affect my morality but they do affect how I act towards them. I believe in treating people with respect, until they disrespect me. If banks choose to do whatever is legal why would I not be willing to play by the rules they set?
I think there are some moral questions about what affect your actions have on society as a whole but I really don't think there are any good arguments that you have moral obligation towards the bank. I legal obligation but not a moral one.
If a bank has the ability to walk away from a huge amount of debt they would do so without thinking about. They do not feel constrained by any concept of a gentleman’s contract.
Bullshit speculation. The affirmation that someone MIGHT do something is not justification in the least, or else any sort of crime or injury could be excused as a preemptive redress. The bank could sieze your assets the same way, claiming that you intended to default.And the bank would seize my assets if they thought doing so was in their best interest and they could legally do so. They would think they had a moral obligation to shareholders to do so. It is not bullshit speculation it is simple observations.
Is walking away from a mortgage immoral?
- 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM
1375 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street -
- 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM
875 Views
Of course it's immoral.
- 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM
845 Views
But does one sided morality work?
- 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM
965 Views
You asked about the morality of walking away when the borrower still has the ability to pay.
- 12/10/2010 07:31:10 PM
767 Views
A company or organization cannot act morally or immorally? I strongly disagree. *NM*
- 12/10/2010 07:50:42 PM
388 Views
No, it cannot. However the individuals making the decisions for the company can. *NM*
- 12/10/2010 08:48:23 PM
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If banks can not behave in moral manner why should people be expected to behave in moral manner?
- 12/10/2010 08:07:56 PM
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I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others.
- 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM
745 Views
Because it's their moral obligation. Morality is not a trade, you act morally because it is right
- 12/10/2010 08:47:41 PM
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That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you?
- 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM
790 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again
- 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM
786 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again
- 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM
1283 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system
- 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM
986 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM*
- 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM
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Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers.
- 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM
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I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them.
- 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM
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Hrm.
- 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM
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did you take a personal oath in front of god and your loved ones to pay the loan back? *NM*
- 12/10/2010 08:09:07 PM
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Let's assume we're talking about a marriage where no such oath was taken... *NM*
- 12/10/2010 08:10:54 PM
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if there is no oath of fidelity then straying would not be immoral *NM*
- 12/10/2010 08:40:53 PM
383 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract.
- 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM
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That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note 
*NM*
- 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM
407 Views
*NM*
- 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM
407 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach.
- 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM
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You didn't mention the third party
- 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM
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in a way I did since I did mention society
- 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM
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What if you look at it from the other perspective?
- 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM
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Sure, you could do that.
- 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM
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The problem is that you're buying something today and paying for it for the next 15/30/50 years.
- 13/10/2010 03:04:26 PM
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As a professional in financial services - no, it is not.
- 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM
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but almost nobody sees it that way
- 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM
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Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though?
- 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM
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I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM*
- 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM
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I agree, what do you think is different?
- 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM
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The difference is that the bank owns the house. Whereas when I buy stuff, it's mine. *NM*
- 19/10/2010 07:05:34 PM
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I too am unable to work out what distinguishes the two situations.
- 13/10/2010 11:54:15 PM
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I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway.
- 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM
893 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay.
- 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM
781 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank?
- 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM
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You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do.
- 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM
794 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage.
- 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM
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There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here.
- 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM
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What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM*
- 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM
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You can garnish their wages.
- 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM
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With parsley?
- 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM
878 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM*
- 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM
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If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM*
- 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM
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Bit of a long shot. *NM*
- 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM
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Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM*
- 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM
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Not if the doctrine of election applies.
- 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM
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Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money?
- 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM
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I am currently in that situation...
- 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM
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In Washington you can contest the assessed value used to determine property taxes.
- 14/10/2010 07:27:02 AM
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it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM*
- 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM
379 Views
If you have the ability to pay, I would consider it yet another immoral act in an immoral industry.
- 14/10/2010 07:49:38 AM
833 Views