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I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM
I am not trying to argue with just examining the issue. Like I said I don't know the answers the question and I think it is a very complicated issue.


It isn't complicated to me. Character isn't situationally dependent.

I could be argued that the people paying loans on home that is worth less than the value of the loan are being harmed. It could also be argued that the banks are fault for the current housing crisis so they were in effect harmed by the unethical behavior of the same organizations they are now being told they must behave in moral manner towards.


No, it really couldn't. They borrowed a certain amount of money and they are paying back that amount of money. No matter the value of the home they are paying on, the terms of the agreement have not changed, so they can't be any more or less harmful than the day they were signed. Should anyone who has paid off a mortgage above the amount that their home is currently worth be seeking a refund?

Or to be less wordy, the banks screwed things up now want everyone else to place nice and keep paying.


The banks didn't screw this up without quite a lot of help from their borrowers.





If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1534 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - SilverWarder - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 1021 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 1005 Views
It's a good question SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 911 Views
Sort of have to disagree... Antigone - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 983 Views
That's not true actually SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 910 Views
Of course it's immoral. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 985 Views
But does one sided morality work? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 1102 Views
You asked about the morality of walking away when the borrower still has the ability to pay. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:31:10 PM 903 Views
A company or organization cannot act morally or immorally? I strongly disagree. *NM* Legolas - 12/10/2010 07:50:42 PM 444 Views
No, it cannot. However the individuals making the decisions for the company can. *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:48:23 PM 388 Views
If banks can not behave in moral manner why should people be expected to behave in moral manner? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:07:56 PM 967 Views
I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM 880 Views
but who you owe obligations to is a factor random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:03:04 PM 946 Views
Because it's their moral obligation. Morality is not a trade, you act morally because it is right Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:47:41 PM 1081 Views
you also use reason and logic to decide where your loyalty rest random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:16:51 PM 987 Views
You have not explained how it IS the banks' fault Cannoli - 15/10/2010 01:30:10 PM 1030 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 933 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 923 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again Cannoli - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1429 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system random thoughts - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 1120 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 461 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 964 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 813 Views
Hrm. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 1036 Views
did you take a personal oath in front of god and your loved ones to pay the loan back? *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:09:07 PM 459 Views
Let's assume we're talking about a marriage where no such oath was taken... *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:10:54 PM 469 Views
if there is no oath of fidelity then straying would not be immoral *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:40:53 PM 438 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 1078 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 989 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 1069 Views
also random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 928 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 1066 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 481 Views
Exactly *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 448 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 958 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. Tom - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 1066 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* Rebekah - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 431 Views
that is close to the way I see it random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 913 Views
It's both legal and immoral. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 993 Views
You didn't mention the third party Roland00 - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 842 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 992 Views
Thus the edit Roland00 - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 1014 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 423 Views
will those neighbors... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 1155 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. Nebhead - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 984 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 985 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 1012 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 967 Views
Good point. *NM* Tashmere - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 447 Views
Sure, you could do that. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 1005 Views
The problem is that you're buying something today and paying for it for the next 15/30/50 years. Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 03:04:26 PM 902 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. Gaps - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 911 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 944 Views
Dunno. nossy - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 1037 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 947 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way random thoughts - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 952 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? Legolas - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 935 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect random thoughts - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 853 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* Aeryn - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 434 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 964 Views
Collateral Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1462 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 961 Views
The difference is that the bank owns the house. Whereas when I buy stuff, it's mine. *NM* Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:05:34 PM 433 Views
I too am unable to work out what distinguishes the two situations. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:54:15 PM 899 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. John - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 1045 Views
OK what if you take it a step further random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 1047 Views
Good question John - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 1010 Views
I have some questions about this issue. MightyYT - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 968 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 913 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. Elaine - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 937 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 990 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. Elaine - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 933 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 978 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. Macharius - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 1001 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 944 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 963 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* Tim - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 495 Views
You can garnish their wages. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 944 Views
With parsley? Rebekah - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 1020 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 481 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 559 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* Tim - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 429 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 450 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 915 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 967 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 995 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 967 Views
I am currently in that situation... damookster - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 1070 Views
In Washington you can contest the assessed value used to determine property taxes. Vodalus - 14/10/2010 07:27:02 AM 987 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... Macharius - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1280 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* random thoughts - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 435 Views
If you have the ability to pay, I would consider it yet another immoral act in an immoral industry. Joel - 14/10/2010 07:49:38 AM 980 Views
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