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From details others have revealed, it's really not that simple. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/10/2010 10:24:39 AM
Many states and communities around this country have ordinances or laws stating that if they have to rescue you due to your own negligence then they can bill you. There is no reason this department couldn't do the same thing. Hell, it would probably act as a motivator to people to get their payment in.

The department could have simply put the fire out and billed him. This story isn't about whether the guy should have been burning trash (somethign millions of people in this country do) or about economics. This story is about ethics and the duty of rescue services like the fire department. They had a moral duty to help the guy, not stand at the neighbor's property line and basically give the guy the old "Fuck You" by refusing to continue fighting the entire fire.

What the fuck is wrong with some of you people? Good fucking riddance!

I mean, on one level it is; as I've noted several times they could've put it out, assessed a much higher than normal fee (since the annual fee is an actuarial number and represents a partial share of costs, whereas in this case I'd say the homeowner as a non-subsriber to the service is liable for the full costs of the one incident, which could likely run thousands) and put a lien on his house if he refused to pay.

HOWEVER, since, apparently, they'd already put out a fire there at no charge before and he still "forgot" to pay the fee, since it wasn't the first time he had such a "mental lapse" (despite the fact they'd already put out a fire despite his non-payment) and since the county residents outside the city had already voted to create a volunteer department but NOT to provide it engines or a firehouse it really does seem to me that they, and this guy in particular, had been taking advantage of the Fulton departments ethics and humanity for some time. I don't blame them for getting sick of it since it was costing them money and putting their lives at risk. At some point you have to draw the line with people like that or they'll just keep walking on you until they grind you into the turf.
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firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee - 06/10/2010 02:35:20 AM 2197 Views
what kind of bullshit is that? - 06/10/2010 03:19:12 AM 1216 Views
And that brings up another point. What if there had been someone in there? - 06/10/2010 04:03:49 AM 1210 Views
as i said before, they probably would have just rescued them then let the house burn. - 06/10/2010 04:11:24 AM 1198 Views
Why are you trivializing those "precious resources?" - 06/10/2010 04:56:13 AM 1299 Views
except we aren't talking about "people" or a "business" - 06/10/2010 05:03:18 AM 1278 Views
It's slightly different. - 06/10/2010 05:20:55 AM 1107 Views
I'm not against the fee. The fee makes sense. - 06/10/2010 05:24:39 AM 1260 Views
How does the fee makes sense? - 06/10/2010 05:27:30 AM 1181 Views
We ARE talking about a business. - 06/10/2010 05:33:40 AM 1060 Views
i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders - 06/10/2010 05:36:52 AM 1085 Views
Re: i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders - 06/10/2010 05:42:00 AM 1118 Views
if a doctor refuses to aid a dying patient, he'll lose his license, for one. - 06/10/2010 05:48:18 AM 1273 Views
Re: - 06/10/2010 05:59:03 AM 1114 Views
YES!!! Thank you!! - 06/10/2010 06:06:29 AM 1025 Views
that's how hospitals get shut down. - 06/10/2010 05:43:13 AM 1119 Views
This is why goverment must be tolerated *NM* - 06/10/2010 03:30:52 AM 538 Views
Not trying to be a troll, but this seems (mostly) reasonable. - 06/10/2010 03:44:53 AM 1291 Views
And running the govt this way is stupid for it leads to worse results, it is no better than SoN - 06/10/2010 04:02:02 AM 1110 Views
You are a post ninja. *NM* - 06/10/2010 04:02:51 AM 416 Views
It makes sense from a business standpoint. But that's precisely why we socialize these things. - 06/10/2010 04:02:25 AM 1375 Views
as an additional thought.... - 06/10/2010 04:09:57 AM 1027 Views
Apparently being poor wasn't a problem as he offered to pay whatever it takes. He gambled and lost. *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:11:40 AM 563 Views
you shouldn't have to be gambling on whether a public service will be given. - 06/10/2010 05:20:40 AM 1046 Views
No, the rural county's position is ridiculous. - 06/10/2010 05:21:27 AM 1128 Views
their position is ridiculous too. - 06/10/2010 05:22:33 AM 1093 Views
You liberals and your Big Brother. - 07/10/2010 09:09:15 AM 1018 Views
That's abominable. - 06/10/2010 04:03:18 AM 1157 Views
Re: That's abominable. - 06/10/2010 03:33:33 PM 1106 Views
I've been trying to figure out what I think for a few hours now. - 06/10/2010 04:24:35 AM 1091 Views
It wasn't bureacracy, it was his CHOICE. - 06/10/2010 04:30:22 AM 1116 Views
I believe the specific reason was "forgot". That's different. - 06/10/2010 04:47:38 AM 1149 Views
Why the double quotes then? - 06/10/2010 05:11:37 AM 1131 Views
doesn't sound like he intentionally didn't pay it with what you said. - 06/10/2010 05:18:26 AM 1062 Views
The setup itself is wrong. - 06/10/2010 05:25:13 AM 1036 Views
you can't buy insurance after the fact... - 06/10/2010 05:27:40 AM 991 Views
Other than anarchists (read: idiots), who seriously argues against socialized police/firefighting? *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:20:39 AM 504 Views
We just found one: Aemon. *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:37:46 AM 515 Views
Meh. - 06/10/2010 05:47:40 AM 1000 Views
why? *points up* *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:51:06 AM 507 Views
How far up? Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM 559 Views
Yes. I was answering your question of "why" - this news story is the why. *NM* - 06/10/2010 06:00:56 AM 494 Views
Oh, I see. - 06/10/2010 06:05:52 AM 1074 Views
Fires don't just happen because people set them up themselves - 06/10/2010 11:34:05 AM 1191 Views
We have a government do these things for Market Failures exist. *NM* - 06/10/2010 12:46:25 PM 554 Views
When one is poor, things like that become less of a "choice." - 06/10/2010 12:47:08 PM 1044 Views
*Big Edit* I was spreading false information. (Please read edit at the bottom.) People should not - 06/10/2010 05:22:07 AM 1151 Views
and why was it so impossible for him to pay late or pay extra? - 06/10/2010 05:26:39 AM 1172 Views
Because the fire departments costs have to be paid continually. They need the steady income - 06/10/2010 05:33:34 AM 1080 Views
Re: - 06/10/2010 05:47:35 AM 1200 Views
Why not? Isn't that what freedom is about? - 06/10/2010 05:58:24 AM 1075 Views
I'm not free to die. I'm not even free to smoke weed. - 06/10/2010 06:07:17 AM 1118 Views
Practicality is indeed the answer. - 06/10/2010 06:32:24 AM 1120 Views
your model is impractical though - 06/10/2010 08:46:19 AM 1097 Views
because then no one would pay until their house burned. - 06/10/2010 05:34:52 AM 1070 Views
if this was a less severe fire, I would agree with both you and Tash entirely. - 06/10/2010 05:40:51 AM 991 Views
Risk to other properties is not a good argument. They DID come out to prevent that. *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:54:19 AM 589 Views
that is not prevention, that is treatment. - 06/10/2010 05:56:16 AM 1099 Views
Re: that is not prevention, that is treatment. - 06/10/2010 06:00:44 AM 1022 Views
they may be better at doing the actual fire fighting... - 06/10/2010 06:14:18 AM 1051 Views
The problem is... - 06/10/2010 09:11:59 AM 1096 Views
Re: The problem is... - 06/10/2010 12:40:05 PM 1133 Views
Re: The problem is... - 06/10/2010 02:27:30 PM 1182 Views
Re: The problem is... - 06/10/2010 04:13:43 PM 1129 Views
Re: The problem is... - 06/10/2010 04:23:49 PM 1149 Views
You are making an assumption that isn't proven by the evidence you use there - 06/10/2010 11:34:05 AM 1023 Views
You are right. I did open my mouth before hearing both sides of the story. This information does - 06/10/2010 10:30:23 PM 1134 Views
Well we do all do it - 06/10/2010 11:06:10 PM 1099 Views
The is a problem wirth that argument - 06/10/2010 02:55:28 PM 1044 Views
Erm - 06/10/2010 04:46:17 PM 1155 Views
that is true - 06/10/2010 05:19:24 PM 1059 Views
And people wonder why I'm not a Libertarian. - 06/10/2010 06:03:55 AM 1099 Views
from the onion.... - 06/10/2010 08:53:36 AM 1014 Views
They're next after the lawyers, right? - 06/10/2010 09:41:34 AM 1015 Views
Yeah, that's why I always use the 'pragmatic libertarian' descriptor - 06/10/2010 09:54:48 AM 1089 Views
That I can respect and understand. - 06/10/2010 10:08:19 AM 1085 Views
Re: That I can respect and understand. - 06/10/2010 10:37:16 AM 1022 Views
Re: That I can respect and understand. - 06/10/2010 11:19:26 AM 1019 Views
What you are describing is an anarchist - 06/10/2010 12:37:05 PM 1213 Views
It often seems to devolve into semantics. - 06/10/2010 01:01:19 PM 1187 Views
Sigh I feel like I am arguing with the devil - 06/10/2010 01:12:49 PM 1112 Views
Only my impression, as an outsider. - 06/10/2010 01:29:56 PM 1123 Views
This is not a "libertarian" fire department... - 06/10/2010 02:14:03 PM 1034 Views
Libertarian/=non-government. - 06/10/2010 02:16:10 PM 1049 Views
I think you mean not equal to... - 06/10/2010 02:28:30 PM 1264 Views
please use != or <> or =/= not your crazy invented symbolism - 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM 964 Views
I didn't invent it. - 07/10/2010 09:15:23 AM 1081 Views
Or you could use the correct sign &ne; since RAFO does unicode properly - 07/10/2010 09:51:39 AM 1045 Views
You're right; I keep forgetting that, sorry. - 07/10/2010 12:57:36 PM 969 Views
come on, you didn't learn anything from compsci in high school?? - 07/10/2010 04:09:48 PM 1033 Views
Which one does Turbo Pascal use? - 07/10/2010 04:14:50 PM 1159 Views
Turbo Pascal is about as dead as Fortran at this point - 07/10/2010 04:32:01 PM 980 Views
My mom still has Fortran manuals. And COBOL. - 08/10/2010 12:02:21 PM 896 Views
A quick search shows Pascal using <> - 08/10/2010 03:15:47 PM 1108 Views
Huh, missed that. - 08/10/2010 03:18:40 PM 886 Views
Not relevant to how it acted in this case though *NM* - 06/10/2010 02:23:06 PM 487 Views
I see no issue with it... - 06/10/2010 02:26:46 PM 1133 Views
I'm not sure if you meant this as a reply to me? *NM* - 06/10/2010 02:32:39 PM 595 Views
Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. - 06/10/2010 02:57:37 PM 1078 Views
Oh that is easy. - 06/10/2010 03:04:04 PM 1172 Views
This better conveys what I was trying to say--this is a government problem - 06/10/2010 06:27:03 PM 1057 Views
I still don't agree - 06/10/2010 07:16:19 PM 1054 Views
If it were really a market-based decision... - 06/10/2010 08:00:29 PM 1161 Views
Re: If it were really a market-based decision... - 06/10/2010 08:35:55 PM 1012 Views
Refer hence. - 07/10/2010 09:39:42 AM 1116 Views
You are living in the past - 07/10/2010 02:10:06 PM 1006 Views
County government tends to be VERY limited over here. - 07/10/2010 03:16:45 PM 1134 Views
This a situation where you know there has to be a better way - 06/10/2010 02:59:12 PM 1096 Views
Good luck with that. - 07/10/2010 10:03:05 AM 1079 Views
some things should be done by the state and some by private organizations - 07/10/2010 02:38:01 PM 1140 Views
Does the state have authority to allocate county tax dollars? - 07/10/2010 04:03:25 PM 1068 Views
you have spent enough time in East Texas that you should know better than that - 07/10/2010 04:26:26 PM 1132 Views
In passing I'd like to note that this is a bizarre role reversal. - 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM 1075 Views
I am not against government just bad government *NM* - 08/10/2010 02:38:26 PM 486 Views
I'll drink to that. - 08/10/2010 02:42:12 PM 1044 Views
if it wasn't I might be a democrat *NM* - 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM 475 Views
Sounds like a sound decision to me. Fuck 'em. Burning trash? Idiots. *NM* - 06/10/2010 03:16:53 PM 516 Views
I love when people demonstrate their ignorance while calling other people stupid - 06/10/2010 04:37:52 PM 1118 Views
But really - 07/10/2010 12:19:38 AM 1167 Views
that depends on how rural an area we are talking about - 07/10/2010 01:48:03 AM 1047 Views
Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash. - 07/10/2010 01:18:15 AM 1103 Views
Re: Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash. - 07/10/2010 01:31:51 PM 1081 Views
and you were in MAINE. - 07/10/2010 02:28:32 PM 1061 Views
and so you think that is the way they do it everywhere? - 07/10/2010 02:41:09 PM 1027 Views
Re: and so you think that is the way they do it everywhere? - 09/10/2010 06:35:29 AM 1044 Views
Looks like it may be the law in Tennessee as well. - 09/10/2010 12:17:52 PM 1088 Views
I think something is being missed here by many. - 06/10/2010 03:39:12 PM 1239 Views
I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay. - 06/10/2010 04:50:11 PM 1024 Views
I sort of did - 06/10/2010 05:27:53 PM 1047 Views
I do agree with you - 06/10/2010 05:48:22 PM 1096 Views
Re: I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay. - 06/10/2010 06:26:54 PM 1066 Views
*sigh* no but this is not INSURANCE. - 06/10/2010 07:42:05 PM 1097 Views
I'm betting no one will "forget" the fee anytime soon. - 06/10/2010 04:57:38 PM 1167 Views
there can be less disasterous incentives to pay the fee. - 06/10/2010 05:50:01 PM 1169 Views
And what consequence(s) can/do you enforce if the after-the-fact fee isn't paid? *NM* - 06/10/2010 05:55:38 PM 523 Views
Triple the fee. - 06/10/2010 06:16:03 PM 1055 Views
Put the fire back in their house *NM* - 06/10/2010 06:27:43 PM 538 Views
i'm assuming that a provision like this would be written into the policy. - 06/10/2010 07:43:10 PM 1050 Views
So the house continues to burn while you are explaining this contract to the homeowner - 06/10/2010 08:08:00 PM 1071 Views
No, i mean in the original policy, not in something later signed. - 06/10/2010 10:20:46 PM 1128 Views
The whole program is an incentive. - 06/10/2010 07:13:45 PM 996 Views
and by becoming a fireman, you accept an ethical obligation. - 06/10/2010 07:45:47 PM 1082 Views
I'm not saying I like it. - 07/10/2010 04:15:52 AM 1014 Views
Re: firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee - 06/10/2010 06:05:45 PM 1186 Views
This. - 06/10/2010 08:27:54 PM 1193 Views
as a former firefighter, here's my opinion about this: - 06/10/2010 07:09:15 PM 1232 Views
I am guessing they were told not to do it again. - 06/10/2010 07:19:38 PM 1056 Views
bureaucracy ... - 07/10/2010 09:08:25 AM 1111 Views
Re: bureaucracy ... - 07/10/2010 11:46:12 AM 1257 Views
Now, John, your opinion as a professional firefighter is irrelevant here. - 06/10/2010 07:47:41 PM 1119 Views
You FORGOT the MOST IMPORTANT part: - 07/10/2010 10:10:17 AM 1092 Views
Outrageous. *NM* - 06/10/2010 07:11:43 PM 513 Views
That's shocking, to be honest - 06/10/2010 08:05:48 PM 1043 Views
My first question - 06/10/2010 11:53:41 PM 1159 Views
I agree with some of what you said - 07/10/2010 01:54:36 AM 1014 Views
*raises hand* speaking as someone who's participated in controlled prairie burning... - 07/10/2010 02:10:56 AM 1148 Views
I have seen uncontrolled prairie burning - 07/10/2010 04:51:49 AM 1075 Views
Why would the animals be in the house if 911 was called before the fire ever reached the house? - 07/10/2010 12:17:47 AM 1105 Views
That whole thing does seem strange to me as well - 07/10/2010 02:51:02 PM 1208 Views
The reports also seem to contradict one another? - 07/10/2010 02:55:59 PM 1085 Views
Yes, I noticed that - 07/10/2010 03:21:43 PM 1086 Views
I can't believe the stupidity being spewed in this post. The solution is readily clear. - 07/10/2010 01:32:01 AM 1259 Views
AMEN - 07/10/2010 03:16:41 AM 1272 Views
From details others have revealed, it's really not that simple. - 07/10/2010 10:24:39 AM 1192 Views
Sounds like a bad system - 07/10/2010 01:38:52 AM 1023 Views
Is it in bad taste to note that this thread is on fire...? - 07/10/2010 12:58:48 PM 1104 Views
looks like i started.... a FIRESTORM! - 07/10/2010 04:13:51 PM 1134 Views
http://bash.org/?349567 - 07/10/2010 04:29:53 PM 1121 Views
Apparently, this has happened again - 07/12/2011 09:05:20 PM 931 Views
Funny, I was thinking of this thread when I read that this morning too *NM* - 07/12/2011 09:24:47 PM 479 Views
What I was thinking was "Joel... " *NM* - 08/12/2011 02:13:35 AM 503 Views
That too... *NM* - 08/12/2011 02:15:04 AM 495 Views
Honestly, those people sound like idiots. - 09/12/2011 03:11:27 AM 976 Views
They do. - 09/12/2011 01:25:49 PM 1041 Views
Or... - 11/12/2011 05:10:19 AM 966 Views
Re: Or... - 13/12/2011 02:31:16 AM 974 Views
You are all crazy posting in this old thread! - 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM 1106 Views
Maybe - 12/12/2011 12:27:33 AM 988 Views
Re: Maybe - 13/12/2011 02:33:42 AM 1110 Views
I'm not sure they are being consistent though. - 13/12/2011 06:33:23 PM 850 Views

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