However, it should be up to us to decide what's practical, not the government. Let's say the portion of my taxes that goes to the fire department is $200 a year (I have no idea what it is). If I decide that I'd rather have $200 extra in my pocket than be protected from fires, why should that not be my choice? Sure, it's a risk, but a fairly small one. Percentage-wise, very few homes burn. By taking that risk, maybe I can now afford better health care, or more nutritional food, or a gym membership, or any number of other things likely to improve my life. That is a rational, well thought out reason to forgo fire protection. Why may I not make that decision?
I do not want the government to protect me from myself.
I do not want the government to protect me from myself.
once again, this story shows you are on the wrong side of things. your kind of thinking is the reason why the ER can't refuse to see you. yes, they will prioritize the severity of the cases (in theory) just like the fire department would if there were a simultaneous fire to this man's home. you're basically saying you're ok with becoming destitute and homeless for an extra $200 per year in your pocket on the off chance that nobody accidentally (or on purpose even) sets your home on fire.
also, if we follow your model of fire protection, how much *more* bureaucracy will it take to make sure someone has bought into the service, especially in a city? even a small city of 100k people would be an absolute nightmare keeping track of who has paid and who hasn't. so in the interest of practicality, your argument has rendered fire protection impractical for the ones who will actually be putting out those fires.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 02:35:20 AM
2195 Views
what kind of bullshit is that?
- 06/10/2010 03:19:12 AM
1215 Views
And that brings up another point. What if there had been someone in there?
- 06/10/2010 04:03:49 AM
1210 Views
as i said before, they probably would have just rescued them then let the house burn.
- 06/10/2010 04:11:24 AM
1198 Views
Why are you trivializing those "precious resources?"
- 06/10/2010 04:56:13 AM
1297 Views
except we aren't talking about "people" or a "business"
- 06/10/2010 05:03:18 AM
1276 Views
It's slightly different.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:55 AM
1105 Views
I'm not against the fee. The fee makes sense.
- 06/10/2010 05:24:39 AM
1258 Views
How does the fee makes sense?
- 06/10/2010 05:27:30 AM
1181 Views
they were at the scene to put out the portion of the fire that spread to the neighbors.
- 06/10/2010 05:28:35 AM
1211 Views
I completely agree with Aeryn. Her points in this discussion have been thought out and well put. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:25:47 AM
592 Views
We ARE talking about a business.
- 06/10/2010 05:33:40 AM
1058 Views
actually, that's exactly what happens to hospitals. they shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:36:28 AM
1156 Views
i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:36:52 AM
1083 Views
Re: i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:42:00 AM
1116 Views
if a doctor refuses to aid a dying patient, he'll lose his license, for one.
- 06/10/2010 05:48:18 AM
1271 Views
that's how hospitals get shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:43:13 AM
1119 Views
In this case, the hard line of letting people suffer the logical consequences is the moral thing
- 06/10/2010 05:53:51 AM
1084 Views
I presume you meant to reply to me 
- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
1056 Views
- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
1056 Views
I didn't know that there had been a first time. That makes their "forgetting" even more disgusting.
- 06/10/2010 06:15:11 AM
1043 Views
and it makes the fire department inconsistent, setting false expectations.
- 06/10/2010 06:18:39 AM
1143 Views
Not trying to be a troll, but this seems (mostly) reasonable.
- 06/10/2010 03:44:53 AM
1289 Views
on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 03:58:27 AM
1176 Views
So that tool who didn't want to pay his fee most likely because he never thought he would need to...
- 06/10/2010 03:25:12 PM
1193 Views
Re: on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 06:33:57 PM
1544 Views
at that point, you're right, they may not have been able to save the animals
- 06/10/2010 07:38:45 PM
1074 Views
the owner says he called after using a garden hose was unsuccessful to put the fire out
- 07/10/2010 03:08:03 AM
1094 Views
And running the govt this way is stupid for it leads to worse results, it is no better than SoN
- 06/10/2010 04:02:02 AM
1108 Views
It makes sense from a business standpoint. But that's precisely why we socialize these things.
- 06/10/2010 04:02:25 AM
1374 Views
Apparently being poor wasn't a problem as he offered to pay whatever it takes. He gambled and lost. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:11:40 AM
563 Views
you shouldn't have to be gambling on whether a public service will be given.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:40 AM
1046 Views
I've been trying to figure out what I think for a few hours now.
- 06/10/2010 04:24:35 AM
1089 Views
It wasn't bureacracy, it was his CHOICE.
- 06/10/2010 04:30:22 AM
1114 Views
I believe the specific reason was "forgot". That's different.
- 06/10/2010 04:47:38 AM
1148 Views
Why the double quotes then?
- 06/10/2010 05:11:37 AM
1130 Views
doesn't sound like he intentionally didn't pay it with what you said.
- 06/10/2010 05:18:26 AM
1061 Views
The setup itself is wrong.
- 06/10/2010 05:25:13 AM
1034 Views
you can't buy insurance after the fact...
- 06/10/2010 05:27:40 AM
989 Views
Yes, they should have a new policy that accounts for this brouhaha situation.
- 13/12/2011 06:21:30 PM
1028 Views
Other than anarchists (read: idiots), who seriously argues against socialized police/firefighting? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:20:39 AM
504 Views
Apparently the idiots that set it up so that the rural people were not covered by a fire department. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:31 AM
529 Views
We just found one: Aemon. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:46 AM
515 Views
Meh.
- 06/10/2010 05:47:40 AM
1000 Views
why? *points up* *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:51:06 AM
507 Views
How far up? Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
559 Views
Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
559 Views
she is referring to the house burning down because someone did not pay a fee. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:59:03 AM
526 Views
Yes. I was answering your question of "why" - this news story is the why. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 06:00:56 AM
494 Views
We have a government do these things for Market Failures exist. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 12:46:25 PM
554 Views
*Big Edit* I was spreading false information. (Please read edit at the bottom.) People should not
- 06/10/2010 05:22:07 AM
1149 Views
and why was it so impossible for him to pay late or pay extra?
- 06/10/2010 05:26:39 AM
1170 Views
Because the fire departments costs have to be paid continually. They need the steady income
- 06/10/2010 05:33:34 AM
1080 Views
Re:
- 06/10/2010 05:47:35 AM
1199 Views
Why not? Isn't that what freedom is about?
- 06/10/2010 05:58:24 AM
1073 Views
I'm not free to die. I'm not even free to smoke weed.
- 06/10/2010 06:07:17 AM
1118 Views
Practicality is indeed the answer.
- 06/10/2010 06:32:24 AM
1118 Views
your model is impractical though
- 06/10/2010 08:46:19 AM
1097 Views
Okay. I'm going to phrase this more explicately with a handy dandy vet comparison
- 06/10/2010 06:32:45 AM
1213 Views
because then no one would pay until their house burned.
- 06/10/2010 05:34:52 AM
1068 Views
if this was a less severe fire, I would agree with both you and Tash entirely.
- 06/10/2010 05:40:51 AM
989 Views
Risk to other properties is not a good argument. They DID come out to prevent that. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:54:19 AM
589 Views
that is not prevention, that is treatment.
- 06/10/2010 05:56:16 AM
1097 Views
Speaking of prevention why were they letting their grandson burn trash? They were endangering
- 06/10/2010 06:02:12 AM
1122 Views
it's very popular in the country to burn your trash instead of hauling it to a dump
- 06/10/2010 08:51:55 AM
1143 Views
Surely they know to prepare the area around the burn area by clearing away anything that might catch
- 06/10/2010 02:51:38 PM
949 Views
i'm sure they told the wind not to blow in that area for a couple days too...
- 06/10/2010 04:12:03 PM
1132 Views
Even when you are camping you are supposed to clear the area within twenty feet of the fire of
- 06/10/2010 10:24:21 PM
1004 Views
all it takes is one piece of bad luck and "FOOSH" you're engulfed in flames
- 07/10/2010 04:11:49 PM
854 Views
The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 09:11:59 AM
1096 Views
Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 12:40:05 PM
1131 Views
Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 02:27:30 PM
1180 Views
I just read that too. It does change my attitude. If he had always paid before and truly did forget
- 06/10/2010 10:27:56 PM
1024 Views
I've been wondering how old he is too.
- 06/10/2010 10:30:20 PM
974 Views
Also they had been out of town. It was actually easy to see how it could have been overlooked.
- 06/10/2010 10:33:04 PM
1102 Views
Well it is something we don't know, though we have the family saying it
- 06/10/2010 11:05:19 PM
1173 Views
You are making an assumption that isn't proven by the evidence you use there
- 06/10/2010 11:34:05 AM
1021 Views
You are right. I did open my mouth before hearing both sides of the story. This information does
- 06/10/2010 10:30:23 PM
1132 Views
it's okay that's what the internet is good for, mindless rage ranting 
- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
959 Views
- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
959 Views
No. It isn't okay. I despise it when other people do that. It is worse when I catch myself doing it.
- 06/10/2010 10:45:03 PM
1009 Views
Actually
- 07/10/2010 02:03:52 AM
1087 Views
seriously. We chatted on facebook, tashy. you were MOST reasonable.
- 07/10/2010 02:12:38 AM
970 Views
What I was doing was repeating what others had said as fact rather than checking out the sources.
- 07/10/2010 02:56:21 AM
931 Views
i like my idea below of the city setting up an automatic-payment system for subscribers.
- 07/10/2010 03:02:36 AM
1130 Views
And another thing. Many rural areas choose to have volunteer fire departments. This is an option.
- 06/10/2010 05:41:20 AM
1153 Views
And people wonder why I'm not a Libertarian.
- 06/10/2010 06:03:55 AM
1099 Views
Yeah, that's why I always use the 'pragmatic libertarian' descriptor
- 06/10/2010 09:54:48 AM
1087 Views
That I can respect and understand.
- 06/10/2010 10:08:19 AM
1083 Views
What you are describing is an anarchist
- 06/10/2010 12:37:05 PM
1211 Views
It often seems to devolve into semantics.
- 06/10/2010 01:01:19 PM
1186 Views
This is not a "libertarian" fire department...
- 06/10/2010 02:14:03 PM
1032 Views
Libertarian/=non-government.
- 06/10/2010 02:16:10 PM
1049 Views
I think you mean not equal to...
- 06/10/2010 02:28:30 PM
1264 Views
In a way the article does speak to that, just not in the way I first thought.
- 07/10/2010 09:06:20 AM
1022 Views
please use != or <> or =/= not your crazy invented symbolism
- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
963 Views
- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
963 Views
I didn't invent it.
- 07/10/2010 09:15:23 AM
1079 Views
Or you could use the correct sign ≠ since RAFO does unicode properly
- 07/10/2010 09:51:39 AM
1043 Views
come on, you didn't learn anything from compsci in high school??
- 07/10/2010 04:09:48 PM
1033 Views
Which one does Turbo Pascal use?
- 07/10/2010 04:14:50 PM
1159 Views
Turbo Pascal is about as dead as Fortran at this point
- 07/10/2010 04:32:01 PM
978 Views
My mom still has Fortran manuals. And COBOL.
- 08/10/2010 12:02:21 PM
896 Views
Not relevant to how it acted in this case though *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:23:06 PM
487 Views
I see no issue with it...
- 06/10/2010 02:26:46 PM
1131 Views
I'm not sure if you meant this as a reply to me? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:32:39 PM
595 Views
This better conveys what I was trying to say--this is a government problem
- 06/10/2010 06:27:03 PM
1055 Views
I still don't agree
- 06/10/2010 07:16:19 PM
1053 Views
Refer hence.
- 07/10/2010 09:39:42 AM
1114 Views
I was expecting SELMA Hayek next to a burning house. Perhaps in a sheer dress, backlit. 
- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
1074 Views
- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
1074 Views
The argument against privately run fire departments is kind of sad
- 06/10/2010 08:24:26 PM
1187 Views
if anything, it's in a businesses FAVOR to show up to unsubsribed houses, depending on their policy.
- 06/10/2010 10:24:13 PM
1088 Views
Makes you wonder why people have insurance at all when it's cheaper to pay as you go.
- 07/10/2010 09:46:57 AM
1120 Views
This a situation where you know there has to be a better way
- 06/10/2010 02:59:12 PM
1095 Views
Good luck with that.
- 07/10/2010 10:03:05 AM
1077 Views
some things should be done by the state and some by private organizations
- 07/10/2010 02:38:01 PM
1140 Views
Does the state have authority to allocate county tax dollars?
- 07/10/2010 04:03:25 PM
1066 Views
you have spent enough time in East Texas that you should know better than that
- 07/10/2010 04:26:26 PM
1131 Views
In passing I'd like to note that this is a bizarre role reversal.
- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
1073 Views
- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
1073 Views
I am not against government just bad government *NM*
- 08/10/2010 02:38:26 PM
486 Views
I'll drink to that.
- 08/10/2010 02:42:12 PM
1042 Views
if it wasn't I might be a democrat
*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
475 Views
*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
475 Views
Being a Democrat's SUPPOSED to mean you roll your sleeves up and fix it.
- 10/10/2010 03:06:24 AM
1084 Views
Sounds like a sound decision to me. Fuck 'em. Burning trash? Idiots. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 03:16:53 PM
516 Views
I love when people demonstrate their ignorance while calling other people stupid
- 06/10/2010 04:37:52 PM
1116 Views
Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:18:15 AM
1103 Views
Re: Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:31:51 PM
1079 Views
and so you think that is the way they do it everywhere?
- 07/10/2010 02:41:09 PM
1027 Views
I think something is being missed here by many.
- 06/10/2010 03:39:12 PM
1237 Views
Which is exactly why this whole contract / mayor / business talk is probably correct but insane
- 06/10/2010 04:00:44 PM
985 Views
I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 04:50:11 PM
1024 Views
Re: I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 06:26:54 PM
1064 Views
I'm betting no one will "forget" the fee anytime soon.
- 06/10/2010 04:57:38 PM
1167 Views
there can be less disasterous incentives to pay the fee.
- 06/10/2010 05:50:01 PM
1167 Views
And what consequence(s) can/do you enforce if the after-the-fact fee isn't paid? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:38 PM
523 Views
Triple the fee.
- 06/10/2010 06:16:03 PM
1053 Views
Tripling the premium fee is definitely not enough. I would think in terms of tripling the cost.
- 13/12/2011 06:27:56 PM
1368 Views
*NM*
i'm assuming that a provision like this would be written into the policy.
- 06/10/2010 07:43:10 PM
1048 Views
So the house continues to burn while you are explaining this contract to the homeowner
- 06/10/2010 08:08:00 PM
1069 Views
No, i mean in the original policy, not in something later signed.
- 06/10/2010 10:20:46 PM
1125 Views
For starters, put a lien on their home; governments routinely do that with unpaid fees.
- 07/10/2010 10:15:21 AM
1124 Views
The whole program is an incentive.
- 06/10/2010 07:13:45 PM
995 Views
*gigles* you said incentive... oh, you mean the pun wasn't intended? *NM*
- 09/12/2011 07:02:44 AM
502 Views
I haven't had my coffee yet.
- 09/12/2011 01:23:46 PM
936 Views
It was a bit of a stretch, "incentive" is related etymology-wise with "to kindle" (incendere) *NM*
- 09/12/2011 04:36:02 PM
497 Views
Ah, I thought of "incendiary" and wondered if that was the case (that those words were related).
- 09/12/2011 05:13:13 PM
934 Views
Re: firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 06:05:45 PM
1184 Views
This.
- 06/10/2010 08:27:54 PM
1191 Views
do we know exactly when the county stopped servicing them?
- 06/10/2010 10:23:06 PM
1336 Views
They didn't have any service at all before twenty years ago. Then the city fire department offered
- 06/10/2010 11:05:37 PM
1003 Views
as a former firefighter, here's my opinion about this:
- 06/10/2010 07:09:15 PM
1232 Views
I am guessing they were told not to do it again.
- 06/10/2010 07:19:38 PM
1054 Views
Now, John, your opinion as a professional firefighter is irrelevant here.
- 06/10/2010 07:47:41 PM
1119 Views
My first question
- 06/10/2010 11:53:41 PM
1157 Views
I agree with some of what you said
- 07/10/2010 01:54:36 AM
1012 Views
*raises hand* speaking as someone who's participated in controlled prairie burning...
- 07/10/2010 02:10:56 AM
1147 Views
Why would the animals be in the house if 911 was called before the fire ever reached the house?
- 07/10/2010 12:17:47 AM
1104 Views
That whole thing does seem strange to me as well
- 07/10/2010 02:51:02 PM
1206 Views
I can't believe the stupidity being spewed in this post. The solution is readily clear.
- 07/10/2010 01:32:01 AM
1257 Views
From details others have revealed, it's really not that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:24:39 AM
1190 Views
Bullshit. It is that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:59:34 AM
1107 Views
Ultimately, yes, but it would almost certainly end with a lien and lawsuit with this joker.
- 07/10/2010 01:53:20 PM
1050 Views
nonsense. by waiting, they created more costs for everyone.
- 07/10/2010 02:32:36 PM
1077 Views
How so? They had to come put out one fire, period.
- 07/10/2010 03:21:51 PM
1018 Views
because if they had come out when he intially called, or even soon thereafter...
- 07/10/2010 09:07:21 PM
1146 Views
and that's not to mention the inevitable lawsuits this particular episode is going to spawn... 
*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
492 Views
*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
492 Views
Yes, they could've spared him a great deal of grief if they gave him free service.
- 08/10/2010 12:16:07 PM
1024 Views
Is it in bad taste to note that this thread is on fire...?
- 07/10/2010 12:58:48 PM
1102 Views
a FIRESTORM!
It took about two hours for the fire to spread from the barrels to the house? How did they not get
- 09/10/2010 12:49:26 AM
1000 Views
Apparently, this has happened again
- 07/12/2011 09:05:20 PM
929 Views
Funny, I was thinking of this thread when I read that this morning too *NM*
- 07/12/2011 09:24:47 PM
479 Views
" *NM*
You are all crazy posting in this old thread!
- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
1104 Views
- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
1104 Views