In Washington, one must always present the APPEARANCE of integrity...
Joel Send a noteboard - 20/08/2010 02:40:24 PM
I think a big part of the problem is he jumped in and commented on one part of the issue but is refusing to comment on the other. If he is not willing to give his opinion on the wisdom of building a mosque there he should have stayed of it all together since that is the key issue to a lot of people. Most Americans agree that we have to let them build the mosque there but most don’t like the idea.
At least with Bush and Clinton you knew where they stood. Obama seems to want to hedge and nuance any position he feels vulnerable on. It is hard to convince people you will stand by your convictions if don't first convince them you possess
those convictions.
At least with Bush and Clinton you knew where they stood. Obama seems to want to hedge and nuance any position he feels vulnerable on. It is hard to convince people you will stand by your convictions if don't first convince them you possess
those convictions.
particularly if the genuine article is not at ones disposal. Clinton and Bush could be at least as duplicitous as any other politician, they were just (usually) very good at LOOKING sincere. Still, we're talking about two men proven to have lied to the American publics face for their own purposes, something I don't recall either ever admitting despite airtight evidence. You want integrity, go talk to Carter; he's the last American President I can't prove for a fact lied to the entire nation.
Anyway, Obama was quite clear and precise in his words and intent; the problem is that people on both sides of the issue have filled in the blanks as they wished. Really, no government official should be making any personal statements about the mosque ITSELF, because that ignores the spirit if not the letter of the First Amendment: The moment an elected official weighs in on whether the mosque SHOULD (rather than CAN) be built, it has the effect of either tacit government condemnation or endorsement. His initial comment was explicitly on the Constitutional aspect, to which his personal feelings about the mosque are (or should be) irrelevant. What was his second comment?
"'I was not commenting, and I will not comment, on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,' he said the morning after he commented on the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there. 'I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That’s what our country is about.'"
If Ms. Dowd thinks that's somehow "unclear" or at odds with his initial statement perhaps it's because she more often seems a talking head than a journalist. I'm really sorry that instead of stating the positions of pundits and demagogues from both sides Obama stated the position of the US Constitution, but my sympathy is more with the nation that the partisans claiming to represent what they don't understand. Obamas mistake, to the extent that he made one (and he didn't "create" this story nationally) was not in what he said but in the fact he said anything at all. Though there is a school of thought (likely the one to which Obama subscribes) that says that as the hue and cry around the country rose, maybe someone NEEDED to remind us of what America means, and who better than the President?
Personally, I agree he should've left it alone, though as I've intermittently watched the drama play out I've become increasingly unsure of that. Whether or not he made a statement though, he had no business making one in favor of or against the mosque, and thank God he at least had sense enough to know that even if the pundits (who aren't exactly overflowing with sense) lack or choose to ignore that knowledge. You and I have the luxury of publicly expressing our feelings about the mosque itself because no one will mistake them for official US policy.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
An amusing column on the NYC mosque by Maureen Dowd....
20/08/2010 12:33:27 AM
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She has a point. Bush had the guts to weather the storm on DPW.
20/08/2010 12:42:21 AM
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DPW? I keep sitting here trying to figure out what that means.
20/08/2010 12:50:14 AM
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Re: DPW? I keep sitting here trying to figure out what that means.
20/08/2010 12:56:44 AM
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Once again, listen to the Economist and don't use abbreviations that aren't obvious.
20/08/2010 06:38:08 PM
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That abbreviation was obvious and all over the place at the time the incident happened.
20/08/2010 07:59:08 PM
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I certainly don't remember seeing it anywhere. The abbreviation was unnecessary in any event.
20/08/2010 10:43:05 PM
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Sure, I could've done that, if I had realized it would puzzle people. I did not. *NM*
20/08/2010 10:59:42 PM
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well since Christie is actually a republican he makes a better example than Bloomberg
20/08/2010 01:53:44 PM
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Gingrich thinks he is a deep thinker?
20/08/2010 09:42:15 AM
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He makes historical references as often as possible, or at least in pretty much everything I've seen
20/08/2010 12:37:02 PM
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As he was a history professor and writes histories and alternate histories, this is not surprising
20/08/2010 05:33:48 PM
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I'm aware of that
20/08/2010 11:47:32 PM
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Re: I'm aware of that
21/08/2010 12:40:29 AM
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Conservatives love Rome. I don't know why.
21/08/2010 01:20:27 AM
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Rome was more often than not governed by aristocrats and did, after all, invent the republic.
21/08/2010 04:50:53 PM
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Except there doesn't seem to be any conflict between either position.
20/08/2010 10:06:20 AM
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He has to learn he needs to be crystal clear on sensitive issues
20/08/2010 02:03:43 PM
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In Washington, one must always present the APPEARANCE of integrity...
20/08/2010 02:40:24 PM
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Clinton lied about the BJ but what is your airtight proof that Bush lied?
20/08/2010 07:44:53 PM
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This is a bit along the lines of what I have been thinking.
20/08/2010 07:49:15 PM
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I didn't see the problem either. He was simply stating the obvious.
21/08/2010 01:39:44 AM
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Then restating it for those who refused to hear it, so that someone else could refuse to hear it.
21/08/2010 04:22:30 PM
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Yes, his backtracking was quite pussy-ish. *NM*
21/08/2010 04:00:31 AM
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How did he "backtrack" exactly?
21/08/2010 04:35:33 PM
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c'mon Joel. are you being intentionally thick?
21/08/2010 05:02:27 PM
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Having read those quotes I don't think he was backtracking on anything. (With link to speech)
22/08/2010 06:27:06 AM
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did you take into your consideration
22/08/2010 03:50:59 PM
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I can't imagine why they would express concern over it. It wasn't controversial. That is on them
22/08/2010 03:58:32 PM
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I agree he is not backtracking
22/08/2010 06:49:36 PM
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While we're picking sides, I'm with Mook and Roland.
22/08/2010 08:20:11 PM
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I like how he's got rhetorical talents when it works
22/08/2010 08:32:15 PM
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nope just human *NM*
22/08/2010 08:37:17 PM
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that's not what Paul just said.
22/08/2010 08:42:24 PM
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He couldn't stay out, no.
22/08/2010 08:56:47 PM
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I don't want to argue with you on a Sunday, my religion says I have to relax.
22/08/2010 09:03:54 PM
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key word: seem
22/08/2010 09:06:40 PM
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I was only using that term for you guys. I don't feel like beating you with a rolling pin until you
22/08/2010 09:14:39 PM
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Seems I interpret his speech on the iftar differently from you and Tash - see my reply to Tash. *NM*
22/08/2010 09:25:13 PM
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I'm not even taking the time to comment on something so obvious as what he did. *NM*
22/08/2010 02:53:10 AM
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Joel
22/08/2010 05:37:45 AM
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His phrasing in the first speech implied that it was a bad idea. But legally they have the right.
22/08/2010 06:32:59 AM
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nonsense
22/08/2010 03:39:30 PM
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I still don't see how it can be misinterpreted except by intent by the listener.
22/08/2010 04:08:52 PM
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so we have reached the point of no return...
22/08/2010 04:18:46 PM
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In your case it would have to be number 2.
22/08/2010 07:38:20 PM
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ah, but I have no agenda here...
22/08/2010 07:41:59 PM
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lol.<3
22/08/2010 08:49:35 PM
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that it is...
22/08/2010 08:57:05 PM
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hee. Well, I still don't agree with you, but at least you're snuggly.^_^ *NM*
22/08/2010 09:09:22 PM
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Tash you are very much a fair person in this world
22/08/2010 08:34:38 PM
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Or there is another option: 3) He was using tact.
22/08/2010 09:01:49 PM
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I really have to disagree with your interpretation of that first speech.
22/08/2010 09:22:32 PM
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Lies, prevarication and deceit again, eh?
22/08/2010 01:17:45 PM
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that was a decent explanation....
22/08/2010 05:18:18 PM
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In the interests of fairness ( this does not support or detract from my position), here is the full
22/08/2010 09:22:50 PM
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