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Just so long as we're both on the 'multi-front solution' page Isaac Send a noteboard - 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
but so many people just focus on the border itself and worry about building a big enough/good enough fence and patrolling it constantly in its entirety. So few people focus on the bigger issues in regards to illegal immigration that can proactively decrease it, such as process reform and drug reform.


Well, people will raft around a fence too, overstay visas, etc but its like any other battle, you don't scrap buying tanks because someone notes the enemy has an air force, you buy some AA batteries and jet fighters too. You can't stop it with a fence, but you can throttle it back, ideally making it a bigger pain in the ass to break the law than follow it. The fence, really, has to do with 'comfort zone', it bugs a lot of us than you can literally walk across the border, but it's hardly just symbolism, a big electric fence really is a serious impediment.

Just for some rough numbers, I have a friend (a wotmaniac-friend) who's husband is from Australia. Our good old friend Australia, yes? To come to the States, he had to wait a full year and pay thousands of dollars. He yearly has to pay a good chunk of money (I believe it's around 1k dollars) to stay on his particular visa/green card. This is exacerbated a bit, as they are not pursuing citizenship (When she finishes school, they plan to move back to Aus).


It isn't easy to do it legally, but it's easier than get into other countries, and that most countries have very relaxed policies about letting Americans visit it is only because they know 'visit' is what 99% of them intend, and that visit = spend money, and most of the remainder go the legal route. It's not particularly cheap or easy to move to any country and probably shouldn't be. There's actually very few countries with 'anchor baby' laws or anything approaching easy routes to immigration. Fees, well, the government soaks anyone it can anyway it can for money, and I guess the general feeling is 'If you can't afford a thousand bucks to move here, honestly we're not sure we want you', from an external POV, most of us would not feel horribly screwed over if we decided to attend school in Germany or France and they said 'fine, it takes a while, and it will cost you $1000 a year', that makes a lot of sense, you are taking up official time, their taxpayers have to pay for those bureaucrats tracking everything otherwise.

My main point in this is that it requires a great deal of time and money to come to the US legally, even for someone from a country like Australia, and who is working in a relatively desired field (he's a techie). Is it really a surprise that impoverished Mexicans without a hope in their own country look at the finances and time required for proper immigration, and choose to chance a border jump instead? This isn't to say we should just let them all in or not remove them, but people in desperate circumstances will find away around a fence. An entire shark-infested sea doesn't stop the Cubans.


It's probably worth noting that cuban's refugees tend to be held in higher esteem, partially because they go through that shark sea
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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At what point does it become ok to take over a country? - 16/08/2010 04:25:09 PM 1269 Views
why would we want to make Mexico our problem? *NM* - 16/08/2010 04:30:48 PM 345 Views
Well, generally it's no longer seen as acceptable. - 16/08/2010 04:38:11 PM 909 Views
Revolución! *NM* - 16/08/2010 04:47:55 PM 321 Views
When it spills your pint and eyes up your woman? - 16/08/2010 04:53:29 PM 782 Views
When they get on your nerves or have something you want, preferably both - 16/08/2010 05:04:10 PM 798 Views
I agree we should attack Canada instead - 16/08/2010 05:19:48 PM 793 Views
I would legalize drugs ten times over before I would annex Mexico. - 16/08/2010 05:36:37 PM 868 Views
that sounds like a much better immigration solution idea than "let's build a GIGANTIC FENCE!!!" *NM* - 16/08/2010 06:33:46 PM 330 Views
Lol that rates right up there with the bridge to nowhere *NM* - 16/08/2010 06:49:19 PM 342 Views
Work Visas might help, but... - 16/08/2010 06:51:11 PM 993 Views
Oh i know it's not a complete solution and i have no problem with a fence - 16/08/2010 07:43:26 PM 735 Views
Just so long as we're both on the 'multi-front solution' page - 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM 646 Views
it's also worth noting that no one is proposing throwing out the Cubans - 16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM 793 Views
west point? *NM* - 16/08/2010 08:56:58 PM 293 Views
Well take over and intervene are two totally different things - 16/08/2010 09:00:50 PM 997 Views
never *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:05:03 PM 327 Views
Not even Hitler's Germany? (if he never went to war but just stayed put) Reply to Yuna *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:24:41 PM 416 Views
If he had never gone to war, that would also have meant no Holocaust... *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:28:16 PM 320 Views
Dachau opened in '33, Nuremburg Laws were '35 - 16/08/2010 09:36:59 PM 725 Views
Ok that's what I was thinking - 16/08/2010 09:45:51 PM 756 Views
Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating". - 16/08/2010 09:52:37 PM 776 Views
Re: Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating". - 16/08/2010 09:54:29 PM 710 Views
I don't know if there's really anything to specifically compare it to... - 16/08/2010 10:00:59 PM 876 Views
Also, perhaps someone should just invoke the (variation of the) Godwin Law and stop this whole thing - 16/08/2010 10:02:23 PM 782 Views
Ah, - 16/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 692 Views
I second the motion to invoke Godwin's Law for closure... - 16/08/2010 10:11:22 PM 827 Views
Perhaps - 16/08/2010 09:46:55 PM 685 Views
Well, you'll note I didn't make that causal relation you attribute to me. - 16/08/2010 09:55:39 PM 819 Views
The Dachau follow up was bookkeeping - 16/08/2010 10:05:35 PM 766 Views
The US already took half of Mexico, so why not the other half? - 16/08/2010 09:57:56 PM 813 Views
"Took" is an unfriendly word, we purchased it *NM* - 16/08/2010 10:21:58 PM 331 Views
yes after a messy political and physical "conflict" - 16/08/2010 10:53:22 PM 781 Views
There was also the Gasdsen Purchase - 17/08/2010 12:30:21 AM 728 Views
The Gadsden Purchase was a pittance and an afterthought, as I'm sure you're aware. - 18/08/2010 12:36:24 PM 647 Views
It is fairly large, but yes - 18/08/2010 02:21:25 PM 723 Views
Well, yes, it WAS a purchase, but then, it would be. - 18/08/2010 03:22:23 PM 1167 Views
and why did it belong to Mexico to begin with? *NM* - 17/08/2010 01:28:28 AM 359 Views
same way it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it. - 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM 604 Views
At least we took the time to conquer it - 18/08/2010 05:20:57 PM 947 Views
well they were not using it *NM* - 17/08/2010 01:27:47 AM 307 Views
Once you solved all your own problems, I'm sure. *NM* - 16/08/2010 10:58:28 PM 319 Views
We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 12:58:37 AM 627 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 02:39:11 AM 696 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 03:34:59 AM 863 Views
I think maybe we've had enough of nation building for a while *NM* - 17/08/2010 02:45:22 AM 310 Views

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