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Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM
My point is that the UN has declared marriage to be a right. While the US does not have to subscribe to this, it does mean that western society as a whole has come to this conclusion and that there is some legal precedent for marriage being a right. And no one has presented any legal precedent for marriage NOT being a right, only claimed it.


Well going to the UN level isn't really necessary, the US constitution is not the only right-giving constitution in the country, there are 50 others, states have traditionally held power over marriage so it's probably more relevant to check state constitution to see if they refer to marriage as a right then the UDHR, I can scratch of Ohio though, the word marry and marriage never appear in the my state's constitution, or so a quick search of the pdf indicates, I would be a bit surprised if no state hadn't used the word 'right' in conjunction with marriage though. Of course, odds are if it had it would have been in reference to banning gay or polygamous unions and wouldn't set precedent if it was tossed out as unconstitutional, still, IMO it would be a better example than the UDHR of the point. In regards though, as an Ohioan, marriage is not mentioned in either my state or federal constitution, so that means it's not a right here, I should think, certainly not an explicitly mentioned right
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Let's ban all Christian Marriage. Dannymac - 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM 1618 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me. Helene - 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM 1024 Views
One small problem... Phelix - 07/08/2010 08:02:34 AM 1042 Views
Re tax. Rebekah - 07/08/2010 08:47:22 AM 1088 Views
That seems sensible to me. SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:13:26 PM 936 Views
Not sure what you mean by "demoted." Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:50:02 PM 1080 Views
Nice. *NM* Camilla - 07/08/2010 08:58:20 AM 608 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people. Cannoli - 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM 1256 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there! Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM 1070 Views
Who else should make those decisions? Cannoli - 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM 1008 Views
I'd totally... Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM 964 Views
I'd totally... ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM 1126 Views
You'd defend this idiot? *NM* Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 06:40:34 AM 500 Views
Indeed ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 1060 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering. everynametaken - 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM 1057 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM 965 Views
Um, ok. *NM* everynametaken - 10/08/2010 12:48:19 AM 502 Views
*Shakes Head* Dannymac - 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM 926 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM* ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM 533 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense. Great Lord of Chaos - 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM 1025 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense. ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM 995 Views
Gah! You did that on purpose! Vodalus - 09/08/2010 01:05:13 AM 946 Views
whoops *NM* ßelals Girl - 09/08/2010 02:22:49 AM 455 Views
Re: *Shakes Head* Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM 980 Views
I still do not see how you think marriage is a "pointless" institution LadyLorraine - 08/08/2010 08:05:45 PM 1076 Views
No, I was referring to same-sex marriage. Real marriage hardly counts as a novelty. *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 02:28:43 PM 443 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about. Dannymac - 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM 925 Views
You cannot be that stupid. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM 1204 Views
There's a lot of ridiculous arguments here, but I'll focus on just one of them... Legolas - 11/08/2010 03:38:05 PM 1077 Views
Incorrect. Genders are not treated equally. Dreaded Anomaly - 11/08/2010 07:53:00 PM 1308 Views
all you need is enough support to pass an amendment random thoughts - 08/08/2010 02:46:08 PM 910 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM 952 Views
And what is wrong with polygamy? *NM* Ectheledhel - 09/08/2010 10:36:53 AM 504 Views
Did I say there was anything? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:03:10 AM 1069 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad. Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM 991 Views
Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM 937 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM 926 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM 1038 Views
Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM 898 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM 1029 Views
Re: Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 02:14:43 PM 897 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 03:06:31 PM 1050 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM 1072 Views
... Camilla - 11/08/2010 03:22:50 PM 944 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 11:25:39 AM 974 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:51:50 AM 912 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM 1018 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 02:54:19 PM 1035 Views
Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 06:13:30 PM 1080 Views
Re: Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:24:06 AM 887 Views
Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Dannymac - 10/08/2010 04:09:43 PM 1011 Views
Re: Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:12:39 PM 892 Views
Great post Danny SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:22:27 PM 768 Views
It should be noted again... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM 1063 Views
and how is it not a right? LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM 935 Views
My definition of rights... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM 1060 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM 820 Views
+1 Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:11:22 AM 1094 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM 918 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM 1044 Views
If we need a more specific resolution... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM 1218 Views
No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 05:25:57 AM 913 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:04:39 PM 1229 Views
That's really a ridiculous stance, you do realize. Legolas - 10/08/2010 03:23:02 PM 875 Views
The point is that marriage IS a right, one which cannot be denied based upon sexual orientation *NM* Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:04:16 PM 701 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM 1107 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM 911 Views
It also doesn't say they can Isaac - 10/08/2010 04:41:18 AM 921 Views
You're missing the point. It's not about gay marriage. Legolas - 10/08/2010 11:20:59 AM 918 Views
No, I got that, I'm pointing out how it does so Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:47:00 PM 936 Views
I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:09:32 PM 909 Views
Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM 844 Views
It's mentioned as a right in some SC decision quoted in that Walker opinion. *NM* Legolas - 10/08/2010 06:51:13 PM 453 Views
To clarify for you SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM 845 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM 1283 Views
I'm not sure that I would call the Security Council the 'Enforcement Body' SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:43:02 PM 884 Views
The fact that it is capable of authorizing the use of military force makes it an enforcement body Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 10:33:59 PM 1153 Views
Disagree - but it's most a matter of definition there SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:31:53 PM 1062 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless.... Jeordam - 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM 858 Views
and the Constitution dictates nothing about marriage. *NM* LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 11:46:24 PM 481 Views
That means it is up to the people. And they say "No." *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:13:12 PM 488 Views
No, but it does dictate things about rights and discrimination SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 03:48:02 PM 1104 Views
Why don't YOU back up your assertion that the right to marry exists? *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:16:02 PM 492 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM 990 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction... Vodalus - 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM 1071 Views
I agree LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:11:19 PM 794 Views
Yeah but this can't be used to prove that it IS a right... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:30:57 PM 1146 Views
Note it all you want... Dannymac - 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 785 Views
No, they seek to expand the terms of the partnership. Homosexuals can & do get married normally *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:14:25 PM 503 Views
The best one yet. Camilla - 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM 1042 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM 909 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM 1019 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM 906 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM 1031 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM 1016 Views
Re: Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel Camilla - 11/08/2010 05:09:23 PM 984 Views
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