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Argh. Elaine Send a noteboard - 28/06/2010 02:17:50 PM

In the 1990s in Russia, the gypsies were everywhere. The children (some of the dirtiest, foulest-smelling children outside of Third World slums you can imagine) would gather together in groups of 12 or more that would accost people arriving at train stations, airports or tourist sites and try to engage in pickpocketing. Any attempt at grabbing them to stop them from running away with wallets or passports or hitting them to keep them away from pockets would result in the arrival of several men who would then attack the people who had "attacked" their children.

It can be similar that over here. Gangs of the children hang around the train stations and the trams and whatnot, trying to grab your change and anything else you're foolish enough to have within reach. I've never seen anyone hit one of them so I don't know about the reprisals

The women would be located a ways away, usually begging (usually with infants too small to join the children picking pockets). Actually, the closer explanation is "aggressive panhandling". Given how superstitious people in Russia can be, the idea that the gypsy woman is trying to yank some hairs off your head if you don't give her money is very disconcerting.

OK, they don't do the witch doctor stuff here that I'm aware of, but definitely the aggressive begging. They're godawful. They were hammering on our front door a week ago, and followed the kids around last Hallowe'en from door to door.

In short, when people in Russia referred to "gypsies" they were not talking about simply an ethnicity, but an entire way of life that centered around lying, cheating, stealing and leeching off other people (including the government).

Right. All fine Irish pursuits as well, obviously, but the Roma can't leech off the Government without any legal presence here. They're allowed travel across Europe but they don't have the same rights as more developed countries - i.e. they can't get work permits and are not entitled to benefits. They get deported for whatever crime, and they come right back. There were a hundred or so living in the middle of the beltway around Dublin a while ago.

As a result, every time I hear about "anti-Roma violence" in Europe, be it in Italy, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or elsewhere, my initial reaction is, "That's terrible - but if the 'Roma' are acting like the gypsies in Russia, I can sort of understand why people don't want them living near them."

It's the goddamn smell that gets me. One of them got on my bus this morning. Jesus Christ in the marketplace, I nearly threw up.

Is this the case? Are people just so terrified about being politically correct and/or not sounding like Nazis that they won't talk about the reprehensible lifestyle that accompanies these people? Or are Western European Roma simply trying to get jobs and live normal lives, but shut out for ethnic reasons?

Well, there's plenty of chat about the lifestyle here, anyway. I don't see much evidence of trying to live like others do.

In Russia, the government has cracked down on the gypsies and so the activities that I saw in the early and mid-1990s are largely a thing of the past.

Our crowd of wasters are slowly getting around to it.

Elaine
Irish Honey

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Europeans - what is the deal with the gypsies? Tom - 26/06/2010 08:43:59 PM 1063 Views

I think you'd need to ask Central- and East-Europeans for more details, but... Legolas - 26/06/2010 08:55:04 PM 699 Views

Is there a sense that they live off subsidies etc.? Tom - 26/06/2010 09:35:12 PM 672 Views

Considering their poverty, one would assume that they do. Legolas - 26/06/2010 09:38:57 PM 681 Views

I have never noticed anything like that with gypsies here. jh - 26/06/2010 09:23:26 PM 566 Views

If it were a problem, I doubt you would have to look to notice it. Tom - 26/06/2010 09:34:05 PM 607 Views

They are here too.. @my - 27/06/2010 01:36:07 AM 591 Views

If you mean the guys who run the roofing and driveway paving scams, among others, they're... Vodalus - 27/06/2010 07:49:39 AM 653 Views

National Geographic put out an informative article on the Gypsies and the discrimination... Vodalus - 27/06/2010 07:49:08 AM 673 Views

Yes, and you have to pay to get the whole article. Tom - 27/06/2010 03:05:04 PM 629 Views

do they look any different than the rest of you folks? Aisha - 27/06/2010 08:08:31 AM 626 Views

Since they're of Indian origin, they actually look more like you. Vodalus - 27/06/2010 08:22:26 AM 632 Views

im not indian, i dont look indian, but i guess i get what youre saying, dark skin, dark hair.... Aisha - 27/06/2010 06:32:03 PM 1033 Views

No offense meant. I realize you're Pakistani, not Indian. But since Pakistan was created to... Vodalus - 27/06/2010 07:06:28 PM 714 Views

Re: No offense meant. I realize you're Pakistani, not Indian. But since Pakistan was created to... Aisha - 27/06/2010 08:37:39 PM 696 Views

Yes. They tend to look like they came from India several centuries ago. Tom - 27/06/2010 03:13:08 PM 648 Views

It's nothing like what you describe in Russia. Tim - 27/06/2010 09:20:55 AM 664 Views

I know what people are trying to say about the Holocaust.

Tom - 27/06/2010 03:15:06 PM 590 Views

I'm also curious about the Tramps and Thieves. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 27/06/2010 08:27:49 PM 235 Views

I think it is more extreme in Eastern Europe Camilla - 28/06/2010 02:11:01 PM 797 Views

That's awful!!! Tom - 28/06/2010 11:03:43 PM 570 Views

Re: That's awful!!! Camilla - 28/06/2010 11:31:43 PM 607 Views

Social services might need kids to help clear minefields in Bosnia... Tom - 28/06/2010 11:36:58 PM 642 Views

Argh. Elaine - 28/06/2010 02:17:50 PM 771 Views

Maybe Ireland needs to be more like Scotland. Rebekah - 28/06/2010 02:58:11 PM 521 Views

Jesus, imagine the rain if we combined the two... Elaine - 28/06/2010 03:10:38 PM 539 Views

How is it that they have freedom of movement if they get deported? Tom - 28/06/2010 11:38:11 PM 675 Views

Political posturing, as usual. Elaine - 29/06/2010 02:19:59 PM 718 Views

There is nothing that could justify an attack like this one. wahooka - 29/06/2010 02:09:54 PM 553 Views

Being from the UK, it is hard to say fairly. snoopcester - 01/07/2010 02:10:13 PM 814 Views

An old gypsy woman LITERALLY tried to curse me in a French train station The Count - 02/07/2010 02:59:36 AM 811 Views

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<quote id="122774">In the 1990s in Russia, the gypsies were everywhere.  The children (some of the dirtiest, foulest-smelling children outside of Third World slums you can imagine) would gather together in groups of 12 or more that would accost people arriving at train stations, airports or tourist sites and try to engage in pickpocketing.  Any attempt at grabbing them to stop them from running away with wallets or passports or hitting them to keep them away from pockets would result in the arrival of several men who would then attack the people who had "attacked" their children.</quote>

It can be similar that over here.  Gangs of the children hang around the train stations and the trams and whatnot, trying to grab your change and anything else you're foolish enough to have within reach.  I've never seen anyone hit one of them so I don't know about the reprisals :D

<quote id="122774">The women would be located a ways away, usually begging (usually with infants too small to join the children picking pockets).  Actually, the closer explanation is "aggressive panhandling".  Given how superstitious people in Russia can be, the idea that the gypsy woman is trying to yank some hairs off your head if you don't give her money is very disconcerting.</quote>

OK, they don't do the witch doctor stuff here that I'm aware of, but definitely the aggressive begging.  They're godawful.  They were hammering on our front door a week ago, and followed the kids around last Hallowe'en from door to door.

<quote id="122774">In short, when people in Russia referred to "gypsies" they were not talking about simply an ethnicity, but an entire way of life that centered around lying, cheating, stealing and leeching off other people (including the government).</quote>

Right.  All fine Irish pursuits as well, obviously, but the Roma can't leech off the Government without any legal presence here.  They're allowed travel across Europe but they don't have the same rights as more developed countries - i.e. they can't get work permits and are not entitled to benefits.  They get deported for whatever crime, and they come right back.  There were a hundred or so living in the middle of the beltway around Dublin a while ago.

<quote id="122774">As a result, every time I hear about "anti-Roma violence" in Europe, be it in Italy, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or elsewhere, my initial reaction is, "That's terrible - but if the 'Roma' are acting like the gypsies in Russia, I can sort of understand why people don't want them living near them."</quote>

It's the goddamn smell that gets me.  One of them got on my bus this morning.  Jesus Christ in the marketplace, I nearly threw up.

<quote id="122774">Is this the case?  Are people just so terrified about being politically correct and/or not sounding like Nazis that they won't talk about the reprehensible lifestyle that accompanies these people?  Or are Western European Roma simply trying to get jobs and live normal lives, but shut out for ethnic reasons?</quote>

Well, there's plenty of chat about the lifestyle here, anyway.  I don't see much evidence of trying to live like others do.

<quote id="122774">In Russia, the government has cracked down on the gypsies and so the activities that I saw in the early and mid-1990s are largely a thing of the past.</quote>

Our crowd of wasters are slowly getting around to it.
</quote>

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