Active Users:1204 Time:22/11/2024 01:34:14 PM
So the relevance of apocalyptic passages is close to zero. Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/06/2010 11:55:05 PM
It's not like a holy writing becomes illegitimate just by being apocalyptic. It's either accepted or it's not. The deeper question is why such passages would be written in the first place. Of course, the promise to give Abrahams descendants Canaan is no more unique to Judaism than God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son to see if he trusts God to come through for him. There's a BIT more to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than just kicking people off their dads land, though that certainly plays a role.

Not illegitimate, irrelevant. It's very hard to take Revelations seriously, and the parts about the "shoes made of hair" and "faces like shields" and all that makes the Muslim apocalyptic predictions almost as silly.

It's undeniable that large amounts of Muslims now are anti-semitic and claim religious reasons for that, including that verse, and they completely ignore the apocalyptic aspect of it, or the verse right next to it saying they'll wage war on the Turks. And obviously they're not going to change that just because I say so, or Tom says so. But at the very least we can keep pointing out that it's fake, it's propaganda.

Oh, I realize all of that, but the stories of conflict between Jew and Arab didn't happen in a vacuum. They may not have been universally accepted (and after the Exile that's more likely than not, since the Jews were scattered to the four winds on at least three separate occasions) but there's SOME basis there even if it was just some Jewish guy who really hated Arabs and wrote nasty things about them to disseminate to his fellow Jews.

The point is that at the time the Israeli-Palestinian conflict originated - to a certain extent in the first decades of the previous century, and full-blown in the twenties - there was no real reason why Jews and Arabs should hate each other. And if there wasn't then, there's no reason why there should be now, not anything other than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict itself. Both religions have enough ambiguous or interpretation-dependent material in their religious books that they could've produced propaganda of a similar nature against various other nations or ethnicities if the need arose.
Reply to message
Jacqueline Rose on the Dreyfus affair and related problems, in the LRB - 06/06/2010 11:28:14 AM 1070 Views
What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:48:16 PM 861 Views
Re: What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:56:32 PM 787 Views
*remains amused at the suggestion of the Dreyfus Affairs "pertinence" to "current" events* - 06/06/2010 05:14:23 PM 788 Views
I agree in part and (strongly) disagree in part. - 06/06/2010 05:40:26 PM 765 Views
"If it's an eternal struggle, how could there ever be a solution or a peace?" - 06/06/2010 06:20:39 PM 826 Views
Purim may or may not refer to a historic event. Even if it does, Haman was not likely an Arab. - 07/06/2010 12:00:05 AM 678 Views
I second your main point. - 07/06/2010 12:09:42 AM 686 Views
I don't discount that there is Arab blood in many or even most "Arabs". - 07/06/2010 12:18:32 AM 679 Views
Okay, fair enough then. *NM* - 07/06/2010 08:45:19 AM 300 Views
The holiday is centuries old and real, regardless. - 07/06/2010 12:28:59 AM 766 Views
You're still missing the major point here. - 07/06/2010 12:44:08 AM 675 Views
That seems a rather limited view of history. - 07/06/2010 01:10:11 AM 778 Views
What the Hell are you going on about? - 07/06/2010 04:08:19 AM 731 Views
Oooh - 07/06/2010 11:07:43 AM 597 Views
Yeah, to whom was the claim on that land given? - 07/06/2010 10:35:42 PM 727 Views
jeez Joel... - 07/06/2010 04:24:47 AM 715 Views
No, the Persians are not Arabs. - 07/06/2010 10:09:47 PM 844 Views
I (coincidentally) stumbled across those infamous hadith passages about Jews the other day. - 07/06/2010 09:41:39 AM 760 Views
So? - 07/06/2010 10:50:49 PM 748 Views
So the relevance of apocalyptic passages is close to zero. - 07/06/2010 11:55:05 PM 708 Views
Not to mention - 08/06/2010 09:09:27 AM 647 Views
Then why are they canon? - 08/06/2010 06:25:09 PM 896 Views
are you claiming that people would pull some things out of holy text and ignore the rest? - 08/06/2010 12:16:41 PM 779 Views
*NM* - 08/06/2010 01:16:13 PM 295 Views
well, for me this just proves why we are not supposed to live among non-Jews - 06/06/2010 11:39:45 PM 859 Views
how so? - 06/06/2010 11:41:18 PM 637 Views
It reminds me of what I kept thinking as I read it. - 07/06/2010 12:51:36 AM 660 Views
couldn't get past the part where anyone who opposes Obama is a racist *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:40:07 AM 471 Views
You hallucinated? *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:39:37 AM 347 Views
No, that would've been one of the places where she should've shut up. *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:58:11 AM 284 Views
No - 08/06/2010 09:08:04 AM 643 Views
I think he's not talking about that bit, but about the very first paragraph. - 08/06/2010 09:30:21 AM 768 Views
If there was more I didn't get far enough to hear it - 08/06/2010 12:09:47 PM 628 Views
That's the problem with the speech - the large majority of what she had to say was worthwhile. - 08/06/2010 01:15:39 PM 693 Views
The problem is blatant bias - 08/06/2010 02:24:57 PM 670 Views

Reply to Message