Active Users:1137 Time:22/11/2024 01:22:06 PM
The holiday is centuries old and real, regardless. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/06/2010 12:28:59 AM
If the truth be told, most of the Arab-speaking world aren't Arabs. They may be called Arabs, yes, but they aren't. Mesopotamia is inhabited by the descendants of the Sumerians, Babylonians and Assyrians. Canaan (I will choose the most neutral term for the land of Syria that is, roughly speaking, south of the Litani) is inhabited by the same people that inhabited it in antiquity. So is Egypt, and so is Turkey.

The usage of "Arab" seems so generic it's often hard to be sure when it's appropriate without a degree in anthropology. :P Though if Haman was Persian then, yeah. There's so much inertia there that the nomenclature is frustrating, hence "anti-semitic" has come to mean "racist against Jews" despite the fact the majority of Semitic cultures aren't Jewish. Or Hebrew; whatever. Of course, the majority of Jews aren't Hebrew... sigh... yeah, OK, I get your point on that score.

Meanwhile, whether or not Purim refers to a real event or not is rather moot at this stage and for my purpose in raising it: How far back does the OBSERVANCE of Purim stretch even if the events never took place? People act like the strained relations between Jews in Canaan (good choice of term, IMHO, since I have a host of issues with referring to the region by a name derived from a group Jewish texts claim fell victim to genocide 3000 years ago) is some kind of novel thing, yet whatever historical reality lies in tales of conflict between Isaac, Ishmael and their descendants, the STORIES have been around nearly as long as western civilization, indicating that even if some Jew and "Arab" made them up out of whole cloth the animosities are still a lot older than the Balfour Declaration or the Six Day War. By an order of magnitude, if not two.

For the sake of argument, let's say there was no historical Abraham, that there was never any Ishmael to mock Isaac or a Sarah to kick him and his mother out of the family, that Haman never tried to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth, that the Samaritan woman who complained to Jesus that the Jews wouldn't let her people use the well dug by their shared ancestor is just a story. Even if they're ALL just stories (even the ones in a Muslim tradition that goes back to the 7th Century) they're centuries old stories, so the suggestion that this whole thing is just about evil Israelis pushing innocent Palestinians off their native lands with European and American aid is worse than disingenuous. It's not just naive, it's willfully ignorant, purblind. If it's about any evil Israelis taking Palestinian land by force, it was evil Israelis like Moses, Joshua, Gideon and David, and it's a bit late to do anything to help the actual Palestinians. If none of that ever happened, the Jews and Arabs have BELIEVED it happened for longer than Islam has existed. Personally, my bet is the modern "Palestinians" are basically Samaritans, which would essentially make them non-Jewish Hebrews, but I don't know enough about them to be sure of that.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Jacqueline Rose on the Dreyfus affair and related problems, in the LRB - 06/06/2010 11:28:14 AM 1069 Views
What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:48:16 PM 860 Views
Re: What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:56:32 PM 786 Views
*remains amused at the suggestion of the Dreyfus Affairs "pertinence" to "current" events* - 06/06/2010 05:14:23 PM 788 Views
I agree in part and (strongly) disagree in part. - 06/06/2010 05:40:26 PM 764 Views
"If it's an eternal struggle, how could there ever be a solution or a peace?" - 06/06/2010 06:20:39 PM 825 Views
Purim may or may not refer to a historic event. Even if it does, Haman was not likely an Arab. - 07/06/2010 12:00:05 AM 678 Views
I second your main point. - 07/06/2010 12:09:42 AM 686 Views
I don't discount that there is Arab blood in many or even most "Arabs". - 07/06/2010 12:18:32 AM 679 Views
Okay, fair enough then. *NM* - 07/06/2010 08:45:19 AM 300 Views
The holiday is centuries old and real, regardless. - 07/06/2010 12:28:59 AM 766 Views
You're still missing the major point here. - 07/06/2010 12:44:08 AM 675 Views
That seems a rather limited view of history. - 07/06/2010 01:10:11 AM 778 Views
What the Hell are you going on about? - 07/06/2010 04:08:19 AM 731 Views
Oooh - 07/06/2010 11:07:43 AM 597 Views
Yeah, to whom was the claim on that land given? - 07/06/2010 10:35:42 PM 727 Views
jeez Joel... - 07/06/2010 04:24:47 AM 715 Views
No, the Persians are not Arabs. - 07/06/2010 10:09:47 PM 843 Views
I (coincidentally) stumbled across those infamous hadith passages about Jews the other day. - 07/06/2010 09:41:39 AM 760 Views
So? - 07/06/2010 10:50:49 PM 748 Views
So the relevance of apocalyptic passages is close to zero. - 07/06/2010 11:55:05 PM 707 Views
Not to mention - 08/06/2010 09:09:27 AM 647 Views
Then why are they canon? - 08/06/2010 06:25:09 PM 896 Views
are you claiming that people would pull some things out of holy text and ignore the rest? - 08/06/2010 12:16:41 PM 778 Views
*NM* - 08/06/2010 01:16:13 PM 295 Views
well, for me this just proves why we are not supposed to live among non-Jews - 06/06/2010 11:39:45 PM 859 Views
how so? - 06/06/2010 11:41:18 PM 637 Views
It reminds me of what I kept thinking as I read it. - 07/06/2010 12:51:36 AM 660 Views
couldn't get past the part where anyone who opposes Obama is a racist *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:40:07 AM 471 Views
You hallucinated? *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:39:37 AM 347 Views
No, that would've been one of the places where she should've shut up. *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:58:11 AM 284 Views
No - 08/06/2010 09:08:04 AM 643 Views
I think he's not talking about that bit, but about the very first paragraph. - 08/06/2010 09:30:21 AM 768 Views
If there was more I didn't get far enough to hear it - 08/06/2010 12:09:47 PM 628 Views
That's the problem with the speech - the large majority of what she had to say was worthwhile. - 08/06/2010 01:15:39 PM 692 Views
The problem is blatant bias - 08/06/2010 02:24:57 PM 670 Views

Reply to Message