Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
" Texts are not immutable, or else adherents to the world's religions would have single interpretations of their content."
You have just stated the fallacy of you position. The text IS immutable. The text is, as the author wrote it. The worlds religions differ because MAN decides to alter what a religious text states; either to further their position, or because they disagree with it. Sucks to be them, sucks to be you, the words on the page are not mutable. This is why I consider the entire though process behind "I can claim whatever meaning I can plausibly fabricate, because the author is dead and can not refute me." moral and intelectual cowardice.
The text, is the text, is the text. It is what it is, & only what it is. It means what the author wrote. I shall prove it to you:
"The walls of my room are white."
now hit the back button on your commputer and then come to this page again (thank you for the second view ). Did the words change? Does the phrase above now state "I am afraid of individuals of Affrican decent"? Do they now read "Any room but mine is evil"? No they do not. They do not change, thus they are immutable. Your interpretation of them, as other than what they state, tell us nothing about the phrase (or a novel) only about you.
A critique would involve a discussion about how well the author conveyed his/her message. A review would tell how enjoyable receiving that message was. As for the immutable "truth" of the book, the author is on record about it already, I am not the source of it.
As for your definition of Ecology, yes it is semanticaly accurate; though coloqually archaic. By that definition ALL books have an "ecology" therefore all books are ecological. Therefore the labeling of Dune as an Ecological book would be both correct and completely pointless. A definition that broad, defines nothing, because it defines everything.
You have just stated the fallacy of you position. The text IS immutable. The text is, as the author wrote it. The worlds religions differ because MAN decides to alter what a religious text states; either to further their position, or because they disagree with it. Sucks to be them, sucks to be you, the words on the page are not mutable. This is why I consider the entire though process behind "I can claim whatever meaning I can plausibly fabricate, because the author is dead and can not refute me." moral and intelectual cowardice.
The text, is the text, is the text. It is what it is, & only what it is. It means what the author wrote. I shall prove it to you:
"The walls of my room are white."
now hit the back button on your commputer and then come to this page again (thank you for the second view ). Did the words change? Does the phrase above now state "I am afraid of individuals of Affrican decent"? Do they now read "Any room but mine is evil"? No they do not. They do not change, thus they are immutable. Your interpretation of them, as other than what they state, tell us nothing about the phrase (or a novel) only about you.
A critique would involve a discussion about how well the author conveyed his/her message. A review would tell how enjoyable receiving that message was. As for the immutable "truth" of the book, the author is on record about it already, I am not the source of it.
As for your definition of Ecology, yes it is semanticaly accurate; though coloqually archaic. By that definition ALL books have an "ecology" therefore all books are ecological. Therefore the labeling of Dune as an Ecological book would be both correct and completely pointless. A definition that broad, defines nothing, because it defines everything.
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
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Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
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Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
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I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
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Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
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Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
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That was most of my issue.
21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
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Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
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Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
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A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
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Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
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Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
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Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
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People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
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Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
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I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
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There are several points to the book/series
17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
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Everyone get something different from a book
19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
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I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
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I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
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I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
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Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
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I didn't see that in Alia
21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
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OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
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One of my favorite series!
21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
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Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
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Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
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Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
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