That actually slipped my mind. I can't believe that.
Myrdhyn Send a noteboard - 16/04/2010 04:44:46 PM
I would have thought with your name you'd give serious consideration to Emperor Karl Culinane.
I loathed him and his obnoxious brat son, but at least the little turd won the war. Rohan, even by the standards of people who worshipped the ground he walked on, was a crap leader when his "kingdom" was invaded, and failed and almost lost, except for his fortuitous death allowing the (marginally) competant people a chance to do their thing.
As a ruler, he mostly lucked out in having people come to his rescue because of family loyalty and had an awful lot of political dilemmas he was fortuitously able to resolve with a knife fight. His entire program of rule was an obnoxious power grab intended to take power from the individual princes and place it all in the hands of the High Prince. THe difference between him and Roelstra was his assertion that he was sensitive and didn't like it. The vast majority of his success came from the fact that he was the son of a badass who made their homeland secure, had a capable soldier for a brother-in-law who could do the heavy lifting for him until it was time for Rohan to win the war in a contrived duel, and a machiavellian aunt who set him up with an incredibly fortuitous marriage. And the aberrant and unrealistic zoology (WTF do that many dragons EAT, and in sufficient quantities to be able to fly, no less; and assuming they consume an appropriate number of herd animals, where does he get off forbidding anyone to kill them, just because he thinks they're pretty? ) of their world just happens to work in a way that makes him exponentially richer than any other ruler.
It didn't help that Melanie Rawn had possibly the worst grasp of military or governmental concepts of any author I have ever read. The bit where she has a group of doctors prove more deadly in battle than trained soldiers because of their exquisite knowledge of anatomy was utterly ridiculous, her feminist assertions that women were every bit as capable as men at being medieval soldiers - and rubbed in by having female soldiers featured prominently, and the way everyone but the selfish and greedy fell over backward to admire a hypocrite who preaches an ideal and looks down on his peers for their scholastic shortcomings and general inferiority to his idealistic awesomeness, while he goes about accumulating power and offing people who get in his way.
Rawn is a gifted writer (or seemed that way when I was an adolescent) but she has no freaking clue what to write about, or how the world works. She's like the anti-Brandon Sanderson.
Going with a tie between King Kelson from Katherine Kurtz Deryni novels and High Prince Rohan (they didn't actually have the title of "King" but that's the job under a different name) from Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince/Star books.
I loathed him and his obnoxious brat son, but at least the little turd won the war. Rohan, even by the standards of people who worshipped the ground he walked on, was a crap leader when his "kingdom" was invaded, and failed and almost lost, except for his fortuitous death allowing the (marginally) competant people a chance to do their thing.
As a ruler, he mostly lucked out in having people come to his rescue because of family loyalty and had an awful lot of political dilemmas he was fortuitously able to resolve with a knife fight. His entire program of rule was an obnoxious power grab intended to take power from the individual princes and place it all in the hands of the High Prince. THe difference between him and Roelstra was his assertion that he was sensitive and didn't like it. The vast majority of his success came from the fact that he was the son of a badass who made their homeland secure, had a capable soldier for a brother-in-law who could do the heavy lifting for him until it was time for Rohan to win the war in a contrived duel, and a machiavellian aunt who set him up with an incredibly fortuitous marriage. And the aberrant and unrealistic zoology (WTF do that many dragons EAT, and in sufficient quantities to be able to fly, no less; and assuming they consume an appropriate number of herd animals, where does he get off forbidding anyone to kill them, just because he thinks they're pretty? ) of their world just happens to work in a way that makes him exponentially richer than any other ruler.
It didn't help that Melanie Rawn had possibly the worst grasp of military or governmental concepts of any author I have ever read. The bit where she has a group of doctors prove more deadly in battle than trained soldiers because of their exquisite knowledge of anatomy was utterly ridiculous, her feminist assertions that women were every bit as capable as men at being medieval soldiers - and rubbed in by having female soldiers featured prominently, and the way everyone but the selfish and greedy fell over backward to admire a hypocrite who preaches an ideal and looks down on his peers for their scholastic shortcomings and general inferiority to his idealistic awesomeness, while he goes about accumulating power and offing people who get in his way.
Rawn is a gifted writer (or seemed that way when I was an adolescent) but she has no freaking clue what to write about, or how the world works. She's like the anti-Brandon Sanderson.
Hah, you know tons of people have gotten the Merlin connection, but noone has ever actually gotten my name as a reference to those books, and honestly I let Karl Culinane slip my mind. He'd definitely be up on the list, and I'll agree he was far more capable ruler than Rohan especially considering what each was faced with.
As Pol noted in the books: Rohan was a perfect ruler for peacetime because he didn't have to DO anything other than arrange laws. Infact, he even notes this in the book. "Never do anything for yourself that others can do better and faster." He was essentially a lawyer with a crown; however, what he was capable of doing for his lands in peacetime due to his kin-network and these laws was pretty impressive. Despite all this, he just couldn't cut it to save his lands from invaders because he was too set in his ways to try another method.
While these some of my favorite series of books,I definitely agree there is far too much "Well damn that was convenient" especially in regards to dragons in the book. There is also far too little grasp of military strategy. Several times when re-reading them, I find myself thinking "Just do this and problem solved you idiots."
Basically, what I'm saying is, now that you got me thinking about it, I'd have to retract my vote for Rohan...but I still adore those books.
This message last edited by Myrdhyn on 16/04/2010 at 04:48:03 PM
The greatest King in Fantasy
09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM
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King Arthur. Hands down.
09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM
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I would argue with you.
09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM
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That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable.
09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM
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I have to agree with Dannymac
09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM
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But he's not in a modern fantasy novel.
09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
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when I read the actual book...
10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM
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"The actual character"? Which of the countless different ones? *NM*
10/04/2010 12:21:00 AM
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i mean the actual character of Arthur in the actual book.
10/04/2010 12:51:44 AM
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There isn't an "actual book." Le Morte d'Arthur is a relatively early compilation of legends. *NM*
10/04/2010 03:09:40 AM
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I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur
09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM
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My money is still on Aragorn
09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM
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Aragorn is so awesome...
09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM
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Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM
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Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM
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Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM
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Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
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I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM
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If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM
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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
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I rather liked her depiction in Rome.
09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM
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Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM
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Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM
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thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion
09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM
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That was my first assumption too, but evidently not. *NM*
09/04/2010 05:22:39 PM
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I changed it to Livia Augusta Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
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I call bullshit
09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM
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I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM
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He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things.
09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM
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Doesn't have to face many things?
09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM
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As in, there are many important aspects of being king he doesn't have to face.
09/04/2010 08:07:16 PM
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well technically speaking he WAS the king when he did all those things.
10/04/2010 12:15:26 AM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM
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I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM
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I'm going to go with a tie...
09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM
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Rohan was a whiny hypocritical bitch who failed at the only real test of rulership he ever faced.
10/04/2010 02:51:34 AM
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That actually slipped my mind. I can't believe that.
16/04/2010 04:44:46 PM
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Artur Hawkwing
10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM
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Alexander the Great? *NM*
10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
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AH conquered more, did better, & was not a huge d-bag. Alex would have commissioned that big statue *NM*
12/04/2010 03:00:39 PM
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And both managed to have their so-called "empires" crumble within a year of their death. *NM*
12/04/2010 06:12:20 PM
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Which just reinforces how awesome AH was - no one else could do what he did
13/04/2010 11:50:54 AM
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???
10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM
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Ta'veren is not a power, it is an accomodation with what the Pattern demands of certain people
12/04/2010 02:56:57 PM
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What's the name of the Lemur-thing that's the King in "the penguins of madagascar"? He gets my vote! *NM*
14/04/2010 04:46:42 AM
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