If "I, Claudius" and it's source material are accurate depictions of the character of Livia, she was an evil EVIL bh of epic proportions, making maybe even Cersei Lannister seem like a sweet person.
So she had her faults... she she might have killed off Julia the elder's children in order to secure succession of Tiberius and Germanicus to the throne...there may have been speculation that she killed Augustus... (coughs) Augustus needed her for her family, and eventually (once all the Juliae heirs started dying off) for her sons. He must have loved her for some reason though, because he left her everything, which was unprecedented, because noble women never owned anything, even in the early empire. Women's estates were either managed by their husbands, or by their fathers remotely (the "remotely managed" method was often implemented by Roman women to allow them to manage their own affairs under the guise of their fathers doing so...even if their fathers lived in Hallas Palestinas).
These events might have happened, but if a man did these things, it wouldn't have been looked down upon as harshly. This is similar to women in business that have stern personalities and thus are called bitches, whereas men are just called business savvy and efficient. She was an ambitious woman in the fledging Roman empire (I mean empire only in the sense that Augustus is the first "real" emperor, even though Marius, Sulla, and Julius were before him), and so any and every action she took was scrutinized and demonized to astounding proportions. Simply being out in public, and holding meetings with men directly created all sorts of misogynistic backlash from the upper crust.
She was definitely an interesting lady to study.
edits: me being a dumb ass
This message last edited by lyringlas on 09/04/2010 at 05:27:49 PM
The greatest King in Fantasy
09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM
- 1817 Views
King Arthur. Hands down.
09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM
- 1213 Views
I would argue with you.
09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM
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That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable.
09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM
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I have to agree with Dannymac
09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM
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But he's not in a modern fantasy novel.
09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
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when I read the actual book...
10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM
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"The actual character"? Which of the countless different ones? *NM*
10/04/2010 12:21:00 AM
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i mean the actual character of Arthur in the actual book.
10/04/2010 12:51:44 AM
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There isn't an "actual book." Le Morte d'Arthur is a relatively early compilation of legends. *NM*
10/04/2010 03:09:40 AM
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I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur
09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM
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My money is still on Aragorn
09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM
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Aragorn is so awesome...
09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM
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Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM
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Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM
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Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM
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Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
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I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM
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If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM
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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
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I rather liked her depiction in Rome.
09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM
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Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM
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Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM
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thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion
09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM
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That was my first assumption too, but evidently not. *NM*
09/04/2010 05:22:39 PM
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I changed it to Livia Augusta Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
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I call bullshit
09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM
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I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM
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He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things.
09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM
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Doesn't have to face many things?
09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM
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As in, there are many important aspects of being king he doesn't have to face.
09/04/2010 08:07:16 PM
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well technically speaking he WAS the king when he did all those things.
10/04/2010 12:15:26 AM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM
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I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM
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I'm going to go with a tie...
09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM
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Rohan was a whiny hypocritical bitch who failed at the only real test of rulership he ever faced.
10/04/2010 02:51:34 AM
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Artur Hawkwing
10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM
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Alexander the Great? *NM*
10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
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AH conquered more, did better, & was not a huge d-bag. Alex would have commissioned that big statue *NM*
12/04/2010 03:00:39 PM
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And both managed to have their so-called "empires" crumble within a year of their death. *NM*
12/04/2010 06:12:20 PM
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Which just reinforces how awesome AH was - no one else could do what he did
13/04/2010 11:50:54 AM
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???
10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM
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Ta'veren is not a power, it is an accomodation with what the Pattern demands of certain people
12/04/2010 02:56:57 PM
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What's the name of the Lemur-thing that's the King in "the penguins of madagascar"? He gets my vote! *NM*
14/04/2010 04:46:42 AM
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