We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
Tom Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
However, I'm not sure if it's entirely fair to the late M. Dumas to label them as "faults". I highly doubt he intended for his little roman to be what you struggle to make it.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open!
- 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM
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Les characters.
- 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM
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Why does the book have enduring appeal?
- 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM
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Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography?
- 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM
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I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM
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Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM
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In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying.
- 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM
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Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM
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He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried.
- 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM
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Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text.
- 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM
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There is no such thing
- 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM
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I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel.
- 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM
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Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM
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Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol.
- 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM
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I think one important question to ask is...
- 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM
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I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version.
- 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM
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I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM
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I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time.
- 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM
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I have read both
- 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM
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I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM
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Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM
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Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter:
- 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM
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The book was very childish.
- 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM
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Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM
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No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM
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You know, this is a problem.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM
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Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol?
- 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM
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I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf.
- 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM
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There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above.
- 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM
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Re: No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM
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Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. 
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
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- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
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I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though
- 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM
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You make some rather odd claims here, Tom
- 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM
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My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common.
- 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
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In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays
- 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM
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If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you?
- 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM
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I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors
- 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM
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Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
- 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
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But yet their reactions vary widely
- 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM
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My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction.
- 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM
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And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels
- 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM
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I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted.
- 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM
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I think estrangement is a key element, though
- 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM
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I don't think estrangement is a necessary element.
- 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM
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I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader
- 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM
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Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree.
- 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM
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Depends on how you view SF, I suppose
- 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM
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I thought that was what we were mulling over
- 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM
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Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me.
- 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM
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It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). 
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
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- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
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approve of this message.
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
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*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
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I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question
- 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM
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Wait...you VOTED for this book?
- 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM
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I honestly can't remember.
- 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM
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Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written.
- 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM
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Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better.
- 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM
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The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM
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You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you?
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
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- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
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Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me.
- 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM
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It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM
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Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog
- 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM
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On what basis?
- 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM
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It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed.
- 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM
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Usually does, when those who know better keep silent.
- 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM
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Regarding comfort zones
- 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM
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Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
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Re: Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM
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If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed.
- 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM
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Possibly
- 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM
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I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM
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Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM
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I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM
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Don't you get it? We bring this place down.
- 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM
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Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
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*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
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Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM
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While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus.
- 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM
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why is it a bonus?
- 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM
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I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete.
- 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM
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Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit.
- 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM
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Re: Regarding comfort zones
- 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
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So. I really liked it.
- 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM
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Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM
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Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM
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We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM
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Re: We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM
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If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown.
- 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM
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Feel free to.
- 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM
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Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
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Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM
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I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach.
- 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM
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My touchy-feely approach?
- 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM
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Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis.
- 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM
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Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion?
- 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM
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I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM
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Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM
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See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM
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Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM
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Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours?
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
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- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
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Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying.
- 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM
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Do it. I'd read that.
- 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM
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All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two.
- 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM
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I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion.
- 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM
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And ANOTHER THING
- 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM
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Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM*
- 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM
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Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM
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Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM
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We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
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In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions...
- 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM
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Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM
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The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do.
- 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM
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Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not.
- 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
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What discussion?
- 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM
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I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms.
- 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM
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Which I still think we can.
- 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM
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Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM
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Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM
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I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM
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Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM
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Deary me.
- 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM
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By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates?
- 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
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Not at all.
- 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM
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I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far.
- 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM
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On the nature of the "Book Club"
- 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM
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Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions?
- 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM
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Yes, shorter would be good.
- 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM
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Well, you should have known better!
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
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- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
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All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
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*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
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Well I'm late to the party
- 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM
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No, you're early
- 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM
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I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM
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Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book
- 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM
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Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
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*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
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An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience?
- 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM
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