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Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM
Exciting? Boring? Deathly boring? Terrific? Vengeful?

What'd you think?


All of the above?

Honestly, it s one of the stranger books in that way. In the main it is an entertaining read splattered with tedious, drawn-out scenes of dubious importance or value. I enjoyed reading it again, though. I was occasionally annoyed by the melodrama, but only occasionally. In part this may be because I have read it about every five years or so since I was a kid (in various different versions and languages, some abridged, some not), and reading it is a bit of a nostalgia trip. In part it is because I can never remember what happens. Except that the good come to good and the bad don't.

Since this bit is headed "plot", however, there is something related that strikes me: If plot is a plan, it is central to the book, but more as a motif than a structure, and I find that interesting. The Count's ability to control events is what makes him and the story so fascinating. It is implausible, of course, but that is irrelevant. Part of the premise is that Dantés has, through his suffering and a congruence of more fortunate circumstances, has become a type of person who is that focused and meticulous, and that it is possible. Quibbling about that is a bit like turning on fantasy with the information that magic doesn't really exist.

What really interests me, though, is that how he became that person is one giant ellipsis. Yes, there is Faria, but that is severely undetailed, and even with that the Dantés who leaves Château d'If is nowhere near the later Count. I think it is the existence of these gaps that provides the richness of the novel, and much of its colour.

Regarding the story as it is presented to it, it is highly satisfying on a very visceral level. I disagree with Larry's Eco quote (without having read the whole any time recently) in that I'd say it is less like pornography than like strip tease (admittedly without having any first-hand experience of either). We are promised satisfaction, but the satisfaction would be worth nothing if it were delivered immediately. Of course, this is not limited to this novel or this plot -- it is a trait of most plot-driven narrative, I'd say. The whole point of it is to delay the end while keeping the desire for it alive.

I know I feel the nagging of the unresolved very strongly when reading it. I heartily dislike reading the beginning, though. The worst part of the book is the part before everything goes wrong. Probably because I know what is coming, and part of me strains to stop it. I have no idea why, but it is a very strong emotional reaction. I keep putting the book down. The betrayal really gets to me.

The scenes with Faria are among my favourites (his clear understanding of the circumstances which he has never had first-hand experience of prefigures the Count's uncanny ability to direct circumstances, which I like), but I find I am not moved by the escape at all.

The scene with Franz d'Espinay in the cave, on the contrary, is one of those that I don't forget (did I mention I keep forgetting what happens in this book?). It must have made a massive impression on me the first time I read it (in a shortened version when I was about 10 -- I remember being a bit confused because I did not make the connection between Dantés and the Count).

The same goes for the garden party. I always remember that, but I never remember what happens there or the importance of it as what establishes the Count as someone in control of the circumstances.

And for some reason I always expect Albert and Haidee to end up together. And by expect, I mean that I believe that that is what happened the last time I read it. I swear that is the set-up. The coupling is Valentine-Morrell, Dantés-Mercedes, Albert-Haidee. I think the most interesting part of the whole book is how that pairing is broken. I do not know why it happens, but it keeps surprising and fascinating me. And leaving my visceral reaction to the book oddly unsatisfied. I love it.




*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2508 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1286 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1434 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1367 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1391 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1310 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1376 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1326 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1521 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1358 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1458 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1389 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1444 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1544 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1431 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1263 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1313 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1368 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1338 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1323 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1385 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1445 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1308 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1431 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1421 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1360 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1428 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1448 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1352 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1488 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1371 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1560 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 683 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 675 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1478 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 706 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1442 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1412 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1472 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1394 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1341 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1429 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1338 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1443 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1416 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1314 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1382 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1334 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1391 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1449 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1487 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1373 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1335 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1270 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1332 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1300 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1509 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1323 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1304 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1179 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1305 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1242 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1279 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1364 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1396 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1326 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1370 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1338 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1350 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1346 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1399 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1524 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1384 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1396 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 687 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1403 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1393 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1372 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1278 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1344 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1364 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 623 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1426 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1478 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1268 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1428 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1422 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1319 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1419 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1367 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1441 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1466 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1421 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1488 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1338 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1360 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1347 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1477 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1318 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1342 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1339 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1296 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1585 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1376 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1402 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1356 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1337 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1364 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1371 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1251 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1480 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1336 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1394 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1469 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1470 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1438 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1410 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1370 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1404 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1286 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1307 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1353 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1321 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1298 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1326 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1210 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1382 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1431 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1340 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1298 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1231 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1467 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1370 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1328 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1392 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1250 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 735 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1421 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1368 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1301 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1472 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1425 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1447 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1425 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1308 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 669 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1340 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1363 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1441 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1333 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1430 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1386 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1453 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1297 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1354 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1277 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1551 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1305 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1466 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1456 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1869 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1301 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1786 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 654 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1222 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1439 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1283 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1303 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1352 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1326 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1274 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1349 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1335 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1308 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1306 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1321 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 634 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 655 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1280 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1235 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1296 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1262 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1293 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1264 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1176 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 693 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1611 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1259 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1347 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1306 Views

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