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Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
Based on the dialogue on these boards, the majority of the people just don't read anything challenging or deep, or if they do, they miss the message.

You can try to say that this book club is meant to excite people to read things other than genre fiction. It isn't, though. We aren't like Russian narodniks of the Nineteenth Century, "going to the people" and enlightening them.

The people who will participate in this club are people who enjoy *good* books. We know who we are. Of course, that doesn't stop the other people from voting at the Quickpolls, which is why decisions about which books to read shouldn't be swayed in that manner.

I suspect The Count of Monte Cristo won solely on name recognition, which is a function of its popularity as what Russians would call a "boulevard novel", i.e., something that would be sold popularly on the streets.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2512 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1289 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1436 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1370 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1396 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1314 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1376 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1332 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1524 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1362 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1463 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1393 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1445 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1544 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1434 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1264 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1318 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1371 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1341 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1326 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1387 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1450 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1311 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1437 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1423 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1363 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1431 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1453 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1357 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1494 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1373 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1562 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 685 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 675 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1480 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 706 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1443 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1414 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1478 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1400 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1345 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1431 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1341 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1444 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1423 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1317 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1388 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1334 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1391 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1450 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1493 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1375 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1337 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1274 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1336 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1303 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1509 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1326 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1309 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1182 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1308 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1245 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1283 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1367 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1398 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1327 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1376 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1340 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1356 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1350 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1401 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1529 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1385 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1400 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 688 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1407 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1393 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1374 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1279 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1347 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1366 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 624 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1427 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1481 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1271 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1433 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1428 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1321 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1421 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1367 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1443 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1469 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1423 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1490 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1340 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1362 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1349 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1480 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1320 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1344 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1339 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1297 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1585 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1378 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1405 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1358 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1340 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1366 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1374 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1254 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1485 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1339 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1396 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1471 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1472 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1443 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1415 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1371 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1406 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1290 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1311 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1353 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1323 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1298 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1329 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1212 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1387 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1435 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1343 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1300 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1234 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1467 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1370 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1330 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1394 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1252 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 736 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1424 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1371 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1303 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1474 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1429 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1450 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1430 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1310 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 670 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1340 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1365 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1445 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1336 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1433 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1389 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1454 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1300 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1356 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1279 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1554 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1305 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1471 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1459 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1871 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1306 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1788 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 655 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1226 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1441 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1287 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1305 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1354 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1332 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1276 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1352 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1337 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1311 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1309 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1326 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 634 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 657 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1282 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1238 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1299 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1264 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1299 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1269 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1179 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 694 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1613 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1262 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1349 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1309 Views

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